US embassy cable - 03HANOI1320

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 04 HANOI 001320 
 
SIPDIS 
 
SENSITIVE BUT UNCLASSIFIED 
 
DEPT FOR EAP/BCLTV, EAP/PD, DRL AND DRL/IRF, EB 
USDOC 6500 AND 4431/MAC/AP/OKSA/VLC/HPPHO 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: PREL, PHUM, KIRF, OEXC, ECON, ETRD, VM, RELFREE, HUMANR 
SUBJECT:  REVIEWING BILATERAL RELATIONS WITH DEPUTY 
--            PRIME MINISTER DUNG 
 
REF:  A.  Hanoi 567   B.  Hanoi 175  C.  Hanoi 842 
 
      D.   Hanoi 1263  E.  Hanoi 907  F.  02 HCMC 966 
      G.  02 Hanoi 2761 
 
1.  (SBU)  Summary.  Deputy Prime Minister (DPM) Nguyen Tan 
Dung and the Ambassador (accompanied by DCM Porter and 
poloff) held a two-hour discussion on bilateral issues on 
May 27.  The meeting received generally positive coverage in 
the state-controlled print and broadcast media.  Dung 
highlighted recent positive developments, such as the recent 
National Assembly delegation visit to the U.S., increased 
educational exchanges through the Vietnam Education Fund 
(VEF), and the textile agreement.  The Ambassador raised 
human rights and religious freedom issues; Dung claimed that 
persons of concern to the U.S. (and others) were prosecuted 
for "violating Vietnamese laws."  Interestingly, Dung 
dangled the possibility of emigration to the U.S. by 
detained activist Dr. Nguyen Van Que, a proposal to which we 
will follow up.  He also stated that US officials would be 
allowed to attend Que's trial.   Concerning religious 
freedom, Dung admitted that some cadres in the Central and 
Western Highlands "do not understand" the GVN's policy on 
religious freedom.  Dung expressed concern over 
reintroduction of the Vietnam Human Rights Act (VNHA) in the 
US Congress.  Dung claimed that Vietnam is being treated 
unfairly over the catfish issue.  (Septels will cover their 
discussion concerning the Ministry of Public Security and a 
separate meeting the Ambassador held with Ngo Yen Thi, the 
new chairman of the Religious Affairs Committee on May 28.) 
End Summary. 
 
2.  (U)  This was the Ambassador's first meeting with DPM 
Dung since March 10, when they also covered a number of 
bilateral issues (ref a).  Dung and the Ambassador agreed 
that a regular dialogue is useful to discuss both the 
positive and negative aspects of the bilateral relationship. 
 
3.  (U)  The meeting received coverage in state-controlled 
print and broadcast media.  The Party's mouthpiece, "The 
People's Daily," noted that Dung and the Ambassador 
"exchanged views on issues of mutual concern. . . Vietnam 
attaches importance to its relations to the U.S."  State 
television reported that ". . . it was inevitable for some 
problems to emerge during the course of improvement in ties 
. . ."  The media reports did not specifically mention the 
discussions concerning human rights, religious freedom, and 
the Ministry of Public Security. 
 
---------------------- 
SOME GOOD DEVELOPMENTS 
---------------------- 
 
4.  (SBU)  Dung said that, overall, the GVN "is happy" to 
see progress in the bilateral relationship.  Specifically, 
he highlighted the "positive" results of Bilateral Trade 
Agreement (BTA) implementation, the recently concluded 
textile agreement, and the Vietnam Education Fund (VEF). 
Dung commented that the GVN is pleased to see the first 
group of students selected under the program.  He noted 
that, generally, young people in Vietnam have a "favorable" 
view of the U.S. and many want to learn English and study 
there in programs like VEF and Fulbright.  He also thanked 
the Ambassador for his help in raising funds to assist the 
French Hospital.  Such activity, he noted, expresses the 
"good sentiments" of the USG towards Vietnam. 
 
5.  (U)  Dung said that the recent visit of the National 
Assembly delegation was "an appropriate step forward."  The 
meetings with congressmen and veterans' organizations went 
well, he reported.  In general, the GVN would like to see 
more official visits and exchanges because they improve 
"mutual understanding," he continued.  The GVN is also 
looking forward to MFA Vice Minister Nguyen Dinh Bin's 
upcoming visit, as well future visits by Minister of Defense 
Tra, DPM Vu Khoan, and Foreign Minister Nien, he added. 
 
6.  (SBU)  Commenting on Dung's remarks, the Ambassador said 
that the textile agreement was "a complicated process," but 
"probably the best result possible."  Regarding the VEF, he 
said that the first group of participants had been selected. 
The Ambassador added that he would meet with VEF's 
leadership on his upcoming trip to the U.S.  Concerning the 
National Assembly delegation, the Ambassador said that he 
had also heard it was quite successful and that people were 
especially impressed with the delegation's leader, Madame 
Ton Nu Thi Ninh.  The Ambassador said that he was encouraged 
to see that VFM Bin is leading a delegation (leaving May 31) 
that will be engaging in outreach activities with the 
Vietnamese-American population (septel).  The Ambassador 
noted that Bin's delegation seemed relatively "Northern," 
(as well as having at least one representative from the 
Ministry of Public Security - MPS), but if both sides "are 
willing to listen to each other, perhaps the mission will 
succeed."  Commenting on the last statement, DPM Dung said 
that the GVN maintains a "consistent policy" concerning 
overseas Vietnamese, therefore whether officials are 
northern or southern "should not matter."  However, he told 
the Ambassador that he would discuss the Ambassador's 
suggestion with to VFM Bin.  (Comment:  The GVN did add a 
southerner.  End Comment) 
 
----------------------------- 
HUMAN RIGHTS/RELGIOUS FREEDOM 
----------------------------- 
 
7.  (SBU)  The Ambassador explained to Dung that one purpose 
for this meeting was to discuss human rights and religious 
freedom issues.  The Ambassador told Dung that USG concerns 
over human rights should not be construed as trying to 
change Vietnam's system or engaging in "peaceful evolution." 
The Ambassador said that he is sure to be asked human rights 
questions when he goes to Washington.  Vietnam is getting 
increased attention along these lines.    The Ambassador 
noted that Resolution Seven, adopted in January by the 
Seventh Plenum of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) 
Central Committee, seemed positive in its recognition of the 
importance of religion.  The Embassy is hoping to receive 
more clarification from the GVN and CPV about this 
Resolution, he added. 
 
8.  (SBU)  The Ambassador said that he does not want to see 
our long-term goals (e.g., helping Vietnam become more 
integrated into the world community) affected by continuing 
problems with human rights.  There are certain flashpoints 
that attract negative attention in the U.S.  One is the 
treatment of Protestants in the Central and Western 
Highlands, where the GVN has a tendency to view all 
Protestants as "subversive" elements along the lines of the 
Dega separatists.  The Ambassador said that he has met with 
local provincial leaders and some acknowledged this problem. 
He also pointed out that when officials from the U.S. 
Consulate General in Ho Chi Minh City visited Kon Tum 
province, some local officials were unaware that the 
Southern Evangelical Church of Vietnam (SECV) is now legal. 
The Ambassador further stated that we see many credible 
reports about church closings and forced conversions.  There 
was even an MPS document from Khanh Hoa province that took 
credit for preventing the spread of Protestantism and 
convincing some people to abandon their faith. 
 
9.  (SBU)  Another flashpoint, the Ambassador noted, is that 
Vietnamese citizens continue to be arrested for what we and 
other Western governments view as the "peaceful expression 
of their views."  No one in the West is impressed with the 
typical GVN explanation that the people have broken the law 
- often the "laws" cited are inconsistent with the 
International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and/or 
Vietnam's Constitution.  The Ambassador said that, based on 
information we receive from various sources, we and other 
western nations maintain lists of persons of concern.  He 
noted that German Chancellor Schroeder presented the EU's 
list to the Prime Minister during his May visit (ref d). 
The Ambassador pointed out that Vietnam could generate 
considerable good will by releasing these people. 
 
10.  (SBU)  DPM Dung responded to the Ambassador politely, 
but firmly.  Dung said that he "fully understood" the 
Ambassador's points and that Vietnam, as well as the U.S., 
needs to make more progress in the human rights area.  The 
GVN, he continued, would give the Ambassador's points 
"careful consideration."  Dung said that he did appreciate 
the Ambassador's efforts to explain human rights issues in 
Washington, because some officials there "have not received 
adequate information."  Dung said that when he was in 
Washington, he had met with National Security Advisor Rice, 
who "expressed appreciation for our endeavors in human 
rights and poverty alleviation."  He admitted, however, that 
Dr. Rice specifically expressed concern over Father Nguyen 
Van Ly.  Dung said that he had told Dr. Rice that "we are 
dealing with that case in a consistent manner; however, we 
will consider immunity for Father Ly."  Dung said that as 
the chairman of the GVN's Amnesty Committee, he would 
personally review Ly's amnesty request in the near future. 
In response to the Ambassador's question about the recent 
arrest of Father Ly's niece and nephew, Dung said that they 
had violated Vietnam's espionage laws; he said that they 
would have a public trial.  (Note:  Embassy sources have 
heard that the expected May 30 trial has now been delayed. 
End note) 
 
11.  (SBU)  Dung raised Dr. Nguyen Van Que, a human rights 
activist currently under investigative detention (refs e and 
f).  Dung claimed that Dr. Que (and others) are imprisoned 
or under investigation not because of their human rights 
activities, but because they have broken Vietnamese laws. 
In Dr. Que's case, he will be prosecuted for espionage, 
specifically for giving national security information to 
several foreign non-governmental organizations.  However, 
Dung suggested that the USG should help Dr. Que emigrate to 
the U.S.  Ambassador responded that he understood Que had 
declined a similar offer (note: during his earlier 
imprisonment in 1999.  end note) but would discuss this 
possibility when he met with Dr. Que's brother in Washington 
on June 2.  He urged Dung to provide additional information 
about this case.  Dung assured the Ambassador that Dr. Que 
would have a public trial; in response to the Ambassador's 
request, Dung stated that U.S. officials from our Consulate 
General in Ho Chi Minh City would be allowed to attend. 
 
12.  (SBU)  Dung noted that Vietnam wants to move forward on 
economic development, democracy, and transparency, all of 
which require stability.  The GVN's concern is if "we free 
those who have violated our laws, we will have increasing 
instability." 
 
13.  (SBU)  Concerning Resolution Seven, Dung explained to 
the Ambassador that this resolution "reaffirmed" the Party 
and GVN position that all 54 ethnic minority groups should 
be "united and equal and be mutually supportive for 
development."  To exemplify, Dung noted that some ethnic 
minority groups in the Central Highlands have been compelled 
to sell their land due to extreme poverty.  The decree 
instructs the authorities to take problems like this into 
account when developing programs to raise their living 
standards. 
 
14.  (SBU)  Concerning religious issues, Resolution Seven 
also reaffirms the GVN's policy of allowing citizens to 
choose their own religion.  Dung admitted, however, that 
some local authorities have done better than others in 
implementing the policy.  Dung told the Ambassador that "we 
do not permit anyone to use religion issues to affect 
Vietnam's stability."  Concerning the Ambassador's point 
about the SECV, Dung claimed that he had "criticized" some 
local authorities for not implementing the GVN's official 
recognition of this church. 
 
------------------------ 
VIETNAM HUMAN RIGHTS ACT 
------------------------ 
 
15.  (SBU)  Dung said that he remains concerned over the 
reintroduction of the VHRA in the U.S. Congress.  He noted 
that, while the GVN understands the Department of State 
opposes the bill, he hoped the Ambassador would further 
explain to Congress why this bill would hurt the bilateral 
relationship.  In addition, Dung continued, "we do not agree 
that a foreign body like the U.S. Congress has the right to 
comment on our human rights record - after all, the U.S. 
waged war here and killed millions - we cannot forget that." 
The Ambassador advised Dung that Vietnam should get used to 
other countries commenting on Vietnam's human rights 
performance.  The Ambassador pointed out that the U.S. 
itself receives human rights criticism from the EU 
Parliament.  As for the War, the Ambassador said that it is 
important to focus on the future and "both sides have a role 
in that."  Dung said that he agreed on this point: "it is 
the GVN's policy and the will of the Vietnamese people to 
look to a bright future in our bilateral relationship." 
 
16.  (SBU)  The Ambassador told Dung that he has 
consistently voiced his personal opposition to the VHRA.  He 
has met (and will continue to meet) with Congressmen and 
explain to them why this bill would be a mistake.  On the 
other hand, he continued, the GVN could make it easier for 
the Department to oppose the bill if it improved its record 
on human rights along the lines we had just discussed.  The 
Ambassador also explained that the GVN exaggerates the 
practical effect if the bill did pass. 
 
------- 
CATFISH 
------- 
 
17.  (SBU)  In a brief segue to the catfish issue, Dung told 
the Ambassador that the U.S. Department of Commerce's 
decision to designate Vietnam a non-market economy (ref g) 
was "not objective."  Dung characterized the decision as 
"extreme" and "bad for our farmers and the American people." 
Dung claimed that Vietnam is not "dumping basa on the US 
market."  Dung appealed to the Ambassador to put forward 
Vietnam's view to the Department of Commerce during his 
upcoming trip to Washington. 
 
18.  (SBU)  The Ambassador explained that the GVN should 
keep in mind that trade disputes such as the catfish issue 
do not have a "political" solution.  Dumping cases will be 
settled through the trade dispute resolution process.  They 
are unlikely to receive attention at the senior political 
levels. 
 
------- 
COMMENT 
------- 
 
19.  (SBU)  The possibility of parole and/or emigration to 
the U.S for Dr. Que is the most striking aspect of this 
discussion, and Ambassador will pursue this option both with 
Dr. Que's brother and with GVN officials.  The GVN may be 
beginning to learn the Chinese lesson of the usefulness of 
deliverables, although it is also possible that Dung was 
talking off the top of his head.  Dung continues to appear, 
on the whole, to be a good interlocutor.  Similar to the 
March meeting (ref a), he showed flashes of "old speak," but 
he is willing to listen, generally reasonable, and seems 
genuinely interested in promoting stronger ties with the 
U.S. in a number of areas.  While the long-range impact of 
the meetings is difficult to predict, they should help 
increase mutual understanding and ensure that our point of 
view is clearly heard by the senior GVN leadership. 
BURGHARDT