US embassy cable - 03HOCHIMINHCITY412

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 02 HO CHI MINH CITY 000412 
 
SIPDIS 
 
SENSITIVE 
 
DEPARTMENT FOR EAP/BCLTV, EAP/PD, DRL 
 
E. O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: PHUM, PGOV, SOCI, VM, RELFREE, HUMANR 
SUBJECT: SHOTGUN WEDDING:  UBCV AND VBS TOGETHER AT LAST? 
 
REF:  A)  2002 HCMC 914   B)  HANOI 807  C)  HANOI 842 
 
1.  (SBU)  Summary:  In a meeting with the Consul General on May 
9, Unified Buddhist Church of Vietnam (UBCV) Patriarch Thich Huyen 
Quang spoke hopefully of a new openness on the part of the GVN 
toward efforts to unite the UBCV with the officially recognized 
Vietnam Buddhist Sangha (VBS).  The Patriarch, who was allowed to 
travel to HCMC after more than 20 years of "pagoda detention" in 
rural Quang Ngai Province, was also realistic about the roadblocks 
ahead.  Repeatedly denying any interest in "political activities," 
he said his overwhelming goal now was to unify the two Buddhist 
churches.  Crediting the USG and other members of the 
international community for past and present efforts on behalf of 
his cause, he stressed the UBCV was not quite ready to make it on 
its own.  Still, Thich Huyen Quang claimed the majority of 
Vietnamese Buddhists were really still "his", even if the UBCV 
organization itself had grown weak.  He concluded by saying he was 
still "measuring the situation," but realized "things outside are 
very complicated."  End summary. 
 
2.  (SBU)  Consul General and ConGenoffs met with Thich Huyen 
Quang at An Quang Pagoda, the former principal pagoda of the UBCV 
and current home of the HCMC Buddhist Sangha, the southern branch 
of the VBS.  The meeting was arranged by UBCV General Secretary 
Thich Tue Sy, who also attended.  (Note:  Unlike previous calls on 
members of the official VBS hierarchy at An Quang, this visit did 
not require a diplomatic note or notification to the local MFA 
branch.  While it is clear GVN officials would have had to approve 
today's meeting, it is remarkable that we were allowed to work the 
appointment entirely through the offices of the "outlawed" UBCV.) 
In addition to the two UBCV leaders, three high-ranking VBS monks, 
with whom ConGenoffs have met in the past, also attended. 
 
3.  (SBU)  Thich Huyen Quang appeared in fairly good health, but 
harder of hearing and less focused than during an October 2002 
meeting at his pagoda in Quang Ngai Province (ref A).  He said he 
was satisfied with the medical attention he had received in Hanoi 
and was confident that his needs would be met in the future (ref 
B).  The atmosphere during the meeting was much more low-key than 
during the visit to Quang Ngai.  Despite the presence of high- 
ranking VBS monks in the room, he spoke openly and comfortably. 
For their part, the VBS monks refrained from the frequent 
interruptions and prompting that had marked the behavior of the 
Quang Ngai authorities. (Thich Huyen Quang twice referred to the 
heavy-handed tactics of his handlers during the October meeting in 
Quang Ngai, apologizing for their rudeness.) 
 
4.  (SBU)  Recapping his April meeting with Prime Minister Phan 
Van Khai in Hanoi (ref C), Thich Huyen Quang was clearly pleased 
that the PM had publicly acknowledged the contributions of the 
UBCV "to the resistance".  He also appreciated the PM's sending 
someone to check on his health in Quang Ngai.  He had pressed PM 
Khai for the release of detained UBCV leaders, including himself 
and Thich Quang Do.  He had also asked for written documentation 
of the reasons for the continued detentions, and an official 
statement on the legal status of the UBCV.  While PM Khai did not 
answer those questions, he promised to act with "Buddhist mercy 
and compassion" in his future dealings with the UBCV.  In return, 
Thich Huyen Quang promised to respond with "Buddhist tolerance." 
 
5.  (SBU)  Thich Huyen Quang had spent 20 days in his hometown of 
Quy Nhon, reconnecting with the UBCV faithful before traveling to 
HCMC.  UBCV followers noted a real improvement in the way they had 
been treated by local authorities since his meeting with PM Khai. 
Thich Huyen Quang had then asked to visit HCMC in order to meet 
with UBCV leaders and attempt to reestablish some viable form of 
organization.  While he did not go into detail on the logistics of 
his trip, he did not seem to have encountered any government 
resistance to his plan.  Thich Huyen Quang had hoped to stay in a 
UBCV pagoda upon his arrival, but seemed genuinely pleased with 
GVN arrangements to provide him space at his former pagoda, which 
had been UBCV headquarters before 1975.  Since arriving in HCMC, 
he had met with many followers and was "happy to see that UBCV 
believers are still here." 
 
6.  (SBU)  The Patriarch requested, and was able to meet, with 
HCMC People's Committee Chairman Le Thanh Hai on May 8.  During 
their discussions, Chairman Hai tacitly opened the way for 
discussions on "legalizing" the UBCV through integration with the 
VBS.  When the Patriarch asked Chairman Hai if the two churches 
could be merged, Hai responded that was an internal matter to be 
resolved by the two churches -- but he believed one day there 
would be a single, unified church.  Thich Tri Quang, head of the 
HCMC Buddhist Sangha, also attended that meeting and supported the 
concept of unification.  Based on Chairman Hai and Thich Tri 
Quang's responses, the Patriarch said he believed the GVN really 
wanted to heal the schism within the Buddhist community.  Showing 
off HCMC as the nation's economic engine, the People's Committee 
took Thich Huyen Quang to the new Saigon South urban development 
area - where upscale villas cost USD 800,000. 
 
7.  (SBU)  After some prodding, Thich Huyen Quang briefly 
summarized his May 5 meeting with number two-ranking UBCV leader 
Thich Quang Do, who has been under administrative detention in 
HCMC since June 2001.  During the meeting, Thich Quang Do had 
emphasized the need to get the UBCV's own house in order before 
opening negotiations with the VBS.  Long years of operating as an 
underground church had taken their toll and left the UBCV 
splintered and disorganized.  Thich Huyen Quang deflected several 
attempts by ConGenoffs to elicit predictions on whether Thich 
Quang Do's administrative detention would be lifted on schedule 
this June.  He did note that the meeting had ended with Thich 
Quang Do saying he looked forward to visiting Thich Huyen Quang 
and continuing the discussion in Quy Nhon.  (Thich Huyen Quang 
told ConGenoffs he would be returning to Quy Nhon rather than 
Quang Ngai after leaving HCMC.  He plans to use An Quang Pagoda as 
his base of operations for meetings in HCMC from time to time.) 
 
8.  (SBU)  Assessing the likelihood of merging the UBCV with the 
VBS, the Patriarch noted, "agreeing is easy, but the process is 
difficult."  He placed great stock in UBCV "(human) assets and 
property" as leverage, claiming that many VBS monks and nuns are 
actually UBCV followers.  While the UBCV still holds a number of 
properties that had escaped (or been spared) confiscation, he 
hoped the GVN would consider returning other former assets.  He 
said he expected to meet with the VBS to discuss a merger in the 
near future.  He hopes the two churches will be allowed to sit 
down and discuss - free of GVN interference - their merger, and 
that local authorities would allow the UBCV to reconstruct its 
organizational framework.  Thich Huyen Quang described a future 
unified church which would steer clear of politics, focusing its 
efforts on spiritual matters and charitable works.  While he 
acknowledged that some Buddhists had participated in political 
activities in the past, he stressed the need to concentrate on 
religious affairs during this time of peace. 
 
9.  (SBU)  A recurring theme in the 75 minute-long meeting was 
appreciation for the efforts of the world community and 
international media in supporting the UBCV cause.  The Patriarch 
expressed thanks to the many countries that had allowed UBCV 
Buddhists to maintain the 2000-year-old tradition of Vietnamese 
Buddhism overseas.  Asked what the USG and others could do to 
support the peaceful integration of the two Buddhist churches, he 
noted the importance of continuing international support for and 
media attention to efforts to train new monks and nuns, organize 
UBCV activities at the local level, communicate with believers 
overseas, and build a UBCV public information apparatus.  He also 
cited pressing needs for renovation of many UBCV properties. 
 
10.  (SBU)  Another recurring feature was Thich Tue Sy's strident 
voice interrupting the Patriarch to drive home his own call for 
continued international support for the absolute separation of 
church and state in Vietnam.  Citing the Universal Declaration on 
Human Rights, he insisted no true religion could ever submit to a 
secular authority ("there are no worldly ends for us").  While 
Thich Tue Sy said he would work within the framework of the 
Vietnamese Constitution, his determination to pursue "pure 
spiritualism" outside the supervision of the Fatherland Front and 
Communist Party seemed at odds with Thich Huyen Quang's resigned 
pragmatism.  The difference in viewpoint was clear in their 
responses to a question on whether the GVN would allow interviews 
with foreign journalists.  While the English-speaking Thich Tue Sy 
immediately responded "no problem," the Patriarch's more reserved 
answer after hearing the Vietnamese translation was, "depends on 
the Government." 
 
11.  (SBU)  Comment:  ConGenoffs have previously met with VBS and 
UBCV monks separately.  But together in the same room, we found 
less tension between the formal VBS-UBCV adversaries than between 
the two UBCV leaders themselves.  The VBS monks sat silently by 
while the elderly, revered Patriarch of its UBCV rival listened 
patiently to the strident demands of a monk whom he himself has 
anointed "executive director" of the UBCV once it "gets its house 
in order." 
 
12.  (SBU)  Comment (cont.):  It is too early to tell whether the 
GVN, VBS, and UBCV are really ready to mend fences.  The actions 
of "hard-line" elements who might push the envelope right off the 
table should also be taken into account.  While Thich Huyen 
Quang's recent travels, meetings, and pronouncements are something 
we could not have imagined last October, no one at today's meeting 
made any concrete predictions for the future.  Thich Huyen Quang 
closed the discussion by saying he was still "measuring the 
situation," and acknowledged "things outside are very 
complicated."  The next signal to watch for may be whether the GVN 
renews Thich Quang Do's administrative detention when it expires 
next month. 
 
YAMAUCHI