US embassy cable - 05HOCHIMINHCITY1277

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 03 HO CHI MINH CITY 001277 
 
SIPDIS 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: PGOV, PREL, KIRF, SOCI, PHUM, OVIP, VM, RELFREE, HUMANR 
SUBJECT: VISIT OF CONGRESSMAN SMITH TO HUE 
 
REF: A) HCMC 896 AND PREVIOUS; B) HCMC 586 
 
1. (SBU) Summary: Congressman Chris Smith met with provincial 
government officials, GVN-backed religious leaders, and 
prominent dissidents in Hue on December 3.    The exchange with 
Hue government was pointed; provincial officials largely 
stiff-armed the Congressman's calls for more comprehensive and 
immediate protections for individual rights of assembly and 
expression.  A meeting with the official Buddhist Church was 
more encouraging.  The senior monk -- also a member of the 
National Assembly -- acknowledged shortcomings in Vietnam's 
human rights regime and offered increased collaboration in areas 
such as trafficking in persons, and legislative, educational and 
cultural exchanges.  Congressman Smith also met with Thich Thien 
Hanh of the outlawed Unified Buddhist Church of Vietnam and with 
Catholic dissidents Fathers Nguyen Van Ly and Phan Van Loi. 
Despite police pressure, the three dissidents communicate with 
each other and with activists in HCMC.  All three were firm in 
their anti-Communist convictions.  Congressman Smith was 
accompanied throughout by Human Rights Subcommittee Senior 
Staffer Eleanor Nagy.  Septel follows on the Congressman's 
December 4 meetings in Ho Chi Minh City.  End Summary. 
 
Provincial Government: We will protect "National Unity" 
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2. (SBU) Outlining the GVN position on human rights and 
religious freedom, People's Council Chairman Nguyen Van Me 
argued that in Vietnam there is "an abundance" of people freely 
practicing their faith.  Arrests are never made on religious 
grounds but because people violate Vietnamese law.  Just because 
"selfish, bad persons" have a religious title, does not make 
them immune to punishment when they break the law, nor does it 
mean that Vietnam has violated religious freedom precepts by 
prosecuting them, Me said.  In fact, the dissidents today are 
those who used to enjoy privilege in the pre-1975 regime and 
cannot "accept what we enjoy today."  According to Me, no monk 
has the right to separate from the GVN-recognized Vietnam 
Buddhist Sangha, Vietnam's recognized Buddhist Church.  The 
Unified Buddhist Church of Vietnam (UBCV) is an illegal 
organization that existed only before 1975.  (Technically, the 
GVN outlawed the UBCV in 1981.) 
 
3. (SBU) Me said the plight of a few individuals should not 
overshadow the accomplishments of the Party's socio-economic 
policies.  Thua Thien Hue province had made great strides in 
overcoming war legacy issues and reducing poverty, including 
among the province's 40,000 ethnic minority individuals.  In 
Me's view, Vietnam is fighting internal extremists just as U.S. 
attack on the Taliban is a fight against extremism and not 
against Islam.  The Party and the nation cannot tolerate persons 
who would seek to divide the country or encourage separatism. 
Father Ly was a rabble-rouser who encouraged followers to "take 
up arms" against the GVN.  The Party forgave Hoa Hao dissident 
leader Le Quang Liem for all the "crimes" he committed during 
the war when he was a military governor in central Vietnam, but 
Liem refused reconciliation.  Me closed by saying that Vietnam 
wanted a good relationship with the U.S. and hoped that the 
Congressman would listen to the "vast majority of Vietnamese" 
and support continued U.S. assistance on HIV/AIDS, landmine 
removal and other bilateral programs as well as speed Vietnam's 
entry into the World Trade Organization. 
 
4. (SBU) Congressman Smith acknowledged that Vietnam had made 
substantial economic progress.  He welcomed improved 
U.S.-Vietnam relations; the agreement on religious freedom 
issues between President Bush and Prime Minister Phan Van Khai 
during his visit in June was an important step.  However, 
Vietnam also needs to protect the rights of all voices and 
opinions in society.  This, the Congressman explained, is why he 
and many others in the United States and Europe were shocked 
when Father Nguyen Van Ly was sentenced to 15 years imprisonment 
merely for peacefully expressing his views.  The United States 
has no axe to grind with the GVN, but wants all Vietnamese 
people treated fairly.  The experience of the American people is 
that diversity of views, freedom of expression and freedom of 
conscience strengthens our country.  The Congressman stressed 
that the U.S. does not want the mistakes it made in dealing with 
its African American and indigenous communities repeated 
elsewhere.  The Congressman also pushed Hue officials to expand 
opportunities for faith-based NGOs to provide social assistance, 
particularly in the field of HIV/AIDS.  This activity is clearly 
in concert with Vietnam's new legal framework on religion, which 
opens the door to greater participation of religious 
organizations in humanitarian and charitable efforts. 
 
5. (SBU) While Me was modestly encouraging on the prospects for 
greater NGO participation in social activities, he gave no 
ground on the Congressman's human rights concerns, reiterating 
that the province would not welcome those who violate "national 
unity." 
 
The UBCV in Hue: Resisting "stepped up" Pressure 
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------------ 
 
6. (SBU) Thich Thien Hanh, leader of the UBCV in Hue emphasized 
that religion "must have an objective existence outside 
politics."   Buddhism has operated in Vietnam for 2,000 years 
outside political control.  The UBCV will not accept the Party's 
demand that it be part of or subservient to the Communists. 
More broadly, the UBCV will continue to oppose one-Party rule, 
as so long as the "faithless Communists" rule there can be no 
religious freedom in Vietnam. 
 
7. (SBU) Vietnam's new legal framework has meant nothing to the 
UBCV; as an "illegal" organization the Party would never grant 
it permission to conduct any activities under the law.  For 
example, after the Ambassador in an August meeting encouraged 
Hanh to explore the possibility of dialogue with the GVN (ref 
A), Hanh had written Hue authorities seeking permission to visit 
UBCV patriarch Thich Huyen Quang in Binh Dinh province.  He was 
told orally he would not be allowed to visit.  Instead, the GVN 
has recently stepped up its repression of the UBCV:  On November 
12, UBCV General Secretary Thich Quang Do was severely harassed 
when he sought to travel to another HCMC pagoda to attend 
religious ceremony (ref B).  In other provinces, GVN officials 
also have stepped up harassment of UBCV monks named by Thich 
Quang Do to lead provincial committees.  Hanh, as head of the 
UBCV in Hue, received a letter from the provincial government 
stating that the formation of the Hue provincial UBCV board was 
an illegal act and demanding it be reversed.  Because of his 
refusal to cooperate, Hanh remains under virtual Pagoda arrest. 
Provincial officials also visited all other pagodas in the 
province affiliated with the UBCV and ordered the monks neither 
to deal with Hanh nor to travel to Ho Chi Minh City to visit 
Thich Quang Do or other UBCV leaders.  Hanh estimated that at 
least 50 of Hue's 100 pagodas are pro-UBCV, although all pagodas 
nominally belong to the GVN-recognized Vietnam Buddhist Sangha 
(VBS).  Hanh was convinced that were the GVN to allow the UBCV 
to operate legally, the vast majority of monks and nuns would 
abandon the VBS.  The Party fears that were the UBCV to be 
resurrected, it would lose control, Hanh stated. 
 
The VBS:  Take a gradual approach 
--------------------------------------------- ----- 
 
8. (SBU) In contrast to Chairman Me, Thich Cong Thien, in charge 
of Buddhist education nationwide, Head of the Hue Buddhist 
Academy, and a non-Party member of the National Assembly, 
acknowledged that Vietnam had shortcomings in its human rights 
regime.  Thien, a former member of the UBCV who studied in Ohio 
in 1973, argued that patience, dialogue and engagement will lead 
to Vietnam's international integration and step-by-step 
improvements in religious freedom and human rights that both he 
and the Congressman want.  Cultural and educational exchanges as 
well as increased cooperation between the National Assembly and 
Congress were critical in this regard.  Becoming emotional, 
Thien said that the U.S. and Vietnam should be "helping each 
other, not hurting each other, in the future."  He respects the 
UBCV leaders and their "different point of view," but he was 
willing to sacrifice some personal freedoms in the short run in 
order to ensure societal stability and general prosperity. 
 
9. (SBU) Over lunch at the Academy, Thien acknowledged that the 
Ordinance on Religion was not perfect and that he hoped that the 
National Assembly would debate and pass a full fledged law on 
religion with expanded rights and protections within the next 
two years, but only after WTO-linked economic legislation is 
passed.  The National Assembly also will soon pass a gender 
rights bill; Congressman Smith encouraged Thien to use that 
legislation to strengthen provisions against 
trafficking-in-persons.  The Congressman also pressed Thien to 
strengthen protections of the unborn child in Vietnam.  Thien 
said that he personally agreed that such changes were necessary, 
but, over the short term, the Party needed to have mechanisms in 
place to restrict population growth. 
 
Father Ly 
------------- 
 
10. (SBU) A smiling Father Nguyen Van Ly greeted the Congressman 
at the Archbishop's residence, where he has lived since his 
amnesty release from prison in February (ref c).  Ly said he was 
healthy, although he continues to be treated for tuberculosis. 
Although technically under administrative detention, Ly said 
that he has been able to travel to HCMC on two occasions to 
visit dissidents, including Mennonite Pastor Nguyen Hong Quang 
and Dr. Nguyen Dan Que.  He also has been able to call on Father 
Phan Van Loi and Thich Thien Hanh in Hue.  (Ly subsequently told 
us via telephone he also had traveled to Hanoi to call on 
Archbishop Kiet and that that dissident Mennonite Pastor Quang 
recently had traveled to Hue to visit him.) 
 
11. (SBU) Ly was emphatic that there could not be real religious 
freedom in Vietnam until the Communist Party loses its monopoly 
on power.  Religious freedom cannot be separated from democracy, 
he claimed.  The new legal framework on religion is a sham, as 
it does nothing to eliminate the Party's control over the 
Church.  Church publications are routinely censored and Vatican 
encyclicals cannot be published officially when they deviate 
from the Party line, such as in the area of family planning. 
(Ly said these materials are circulated "unofficially" within 
the Church.)  Ly maintained that all candidates for the 
priesthood must be approved by the State prior to entry into the 
seminary and that they must study Marxist theory intensively 
while in the seminary.  Those that don't believe in 
Marxism-Leninism are kicked out, he maintained.  (Comment:  In a 
subsequent meeting in HCMC, Cardinal Pham Minh Man told the 
Congressman that, under the new legal framework, in the past 
month, the church has appointed seminarians without Party 
intervention and that the study of Marxism in Vietnam's 
seminaries is not in the curriculum in HCMC, but elsewhere is 
largely perfunctory and consists of about 30-40 hours.) 
 
12. (SBU) Ly noted that government officials asked him to raise 
the problem of Agent Orange with the Congressman.  Ly commented 
that if the USG accepted responsibility for Agent Orange as the 
GVN demands, it would face an endless series of economic 
demands.  Ly said that the current USG approach of providing 
assistance generically for the disabled was appropriate. 
 
Father Loi 
-------------- 
 
13. (SBU) Working through a prepared text in English, a fiery 
and passionate Father Phan Van Loi, told the Congressman that 
he, Father Ly and other religious freedom activists were "not 
politicians, but prophets" and were prepared to accept "all 
revenge of the government" in the pursuit of religious freedom. 
Communism and Marxism were the "poison of humanity," and  "Ho 
Chi Minh, a great criminal and source of suffering and disaster 
for our nation and people."  Loi went beyond Ly to criticize any 
Catholic Church cooperation with the GVN, including the 
concurrent visit of Vatican envoy Cardinal Crescenzio Sepe.  (In 
Vietnam from November 28 to December 5, Cardinal Sepe attended 
the ordaining of 57 new priests in Hanoi and participated in the 
consecration a new bishop and the creation of a new diocese in 
the southern province of Baria Vung Tau.)   Any reforms that the 
GVN has undertaken are merely cosmetic, Loi argued and the new 
legal framework or religion is merely a "chain around the neck 
of the church."   Vietnam's CPC status should be maintained and 
sanctions applied to punish the communist regime.  The U.S. 
should focus on democratization, not "capitalization" of 
Vietnam.  Loi said that he and other dissidents are banding 
together to urge a boycott of Vietnam's 2007 National Assembly 
elections. 
 
14. (SBU) Loi said that, since his release from prison in 1988, 
he has remained under virtual house arrest.  Police routinely 
cut his telephone and block his cell phone, although harassment 
against visitors has sharply abated since 2003.  The authorities 
do not harass his sister or his parents, who reside with him. 
(A few days after the visit, Father Loi posted a transcript of 
large portions of the meeting with Congressman Smith.) 
 
Atmospherics and Aftermath 
--------------------------------------- 
 
15. (SBU) Comment:  With the exception of Father Nguyen Huu 
Giai, who had to officiate a funeral on the day of the visit, 
Congressman Smith was able to meet with Hue's most prominent 
political-religious activists privately and without incident. 
Ly told us subsequently that when police asked him about the 
meeting, he said that the Congressman wanted to understand 
religious freedom conditions in Vietnam.  The police expressed 
concern that the U.S. may be plotting to take violent action 
against Vietnam.  Father Ly assured them there was no such 
intent, that the U.S. only wanted economic relations with 
Vietnam to hasten democratization.  He also reportedly told them 
that the U.S. believes Vietnam is better placed than China to 
liberalize politically in tandem with its socio-economic 
development. 
 
16. (U) Congressman Smith cleared this message. 
WINNICK