US embassy cable - 05BAGHDAD4174

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 02 BAGHDAD 004174 
 
SIPDIS 
 
E.O. 12958: DECL: 10/10/2015 
TAGS: PGOV, PREL, PTER, Parliament, Human Rights, Sunni Arab, Ba'ath 
SUBJECT: CODEL SHAYS CALLS ON IRAQI MINISTER OF INTERIOR 
 
Classified By: Political-Military Affairs Counselor David C. Litt for r 
easons 1.4 (a), (b), (d) 
 
1. (SBU) SUMMARY: A Congressional delegation led by Rep. 
Christopher Shays (R, CT) called on the Iraqi Minister of 
Interior Bayan Jabr on October 9, 2005.  Jabr told the group 
that Iraqis are grateful for all the U.S. has done to free 
them from the tyranny of Saddam, assured them that steps are 
being taken to control and eliminate human rights abuses, 
perceived or real, by Ministry of Interior (MOI) security 
forces, and provided a briefing on the steps being taken to 
assure the security of voters for the coming referendum.  He 
predicted that the referendum will pass.  END SUMMARY. 
 
2. (SBU) Congressman Shays was accompanied to this meeting by 
Rep. Earl Pomeroy (D, ND), Rep. Michael Campuano (D, MA), and 
Rep. Ron Kind (D, WI) and several staff members and 
notetakers.  IRMO/MOI Senior Advisor James Yellin and 
DepPolMilCouns were also present. Rep. Shays began the 
meeting by explaining that his delegation reflected a 
diversity of views on the U.S. presence in Iraq and said it 
was his desire to have frank discussions with all the Iraqi 
officials they would meet.  He told Jabr that the questions 
foremost on his mind are how soon can U.S. troops leave, what 
is the level of readiness and quality of MOI security forces, 
and what is being done about reported human rights abuses 
committed by MOI forces against Sunnis. 
 
3.  (SBU)  JUSTIFICATION FOR U.S. PRESENCE IN IRAQ:  Jabr 
began by replying that the U.S. had done the right thing by 
coming to the aid of the Iraqi people.  Even if weapons of 
mass destruction had not been found, this threat was embodied 
in the persona of Saddam Hussain, who clearly had the 
intention and means to produce such weapons.  Prior to the 
U.S. invasion, the Iraqi people had been subject to 
oppression and abuse each and every day.  The people of Iraq 
and the wider region want freedom and democracy and a great 
country like the United States has a role to play in making 
this a reality.  What has taken place in the past year in 
terms of elections and the drafting of a constitution are 
remarkable achievements that should not be overlooked.  In 
addition, the progress made by the Iraqi Security Forces 
(ISF) is also significant. Jabr said that he is very proud of 
how the MOI forces have progressed with the assistance and 
training provided by the U.S. and predicted that by next year 
ISF would be assuming responsibility on their own for 
security in wide areas of Iraq. 
 
4.  (SBU)  HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES: With regard to reported human 
rights abuses by MOI forces, Jabr admitted that in Iraq there 
has long been a culture of police violence, torture, and 
oppression against the people.  He assured the congressmen 
that the government is taking steps to change this culture 
but conceded that, despite daily progress, there is still a 
long way to go.  Jabr said that in Iraq it takes time for 
such things to take root, and reminded the congressmen that 
for fifty years Iraq had no democracy or human rights.  Jabr 
also reported that the MOI is bolstering the rule of law by 
placing Investigative Judges with each Special Police 
battalion, strengthening the role of the Inspectors General, 
and supporting the work of the Commission on Public 
Integrity.  These steps, Jabr maintained, will help bring the 
problems of corruption and human rights abuses under control. 
 
5.  (SBU)  TARGETING OF SUNNIS BY MOI FORCES:  Rep. Shays 
asked specifically about allegations that MOI units are 
killing Sunnis.  Jabr replied that sometimes after Shias are 
killed by Sunnis, revenge operations take place.  These are 
as hard to stop as terrorist attacks.  He said that he, the 
Minister of Defense, the Prime Minister, and GEN Casey are 
working together to establish an independent commission that 
will investigate such claims to determine the truth.  This 
will be an improvement over the existing investigatory 
process, which relies on units that are within and therefore 
under the control of the MOI.  He also maintained that many 
reports of violence or killings committed by police are 
actually carried out by terrorists disguised as police. 
Anyone, he said, can buy a police uniform and paint a pickup 
truck to resemble a police vehicle. He produced photos of 
dead and captured terrorists who he claimed had done just 
that.  He also produced a handful of passports from France, 
Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, and Saudi Arabia along with airline 
tickets from Syria to prove his point that Iraq is fighting a 
war against international terrorists who will use any tactics 
to turn the population against the government, and that these 
foreign fighters are passing through Syria. 
 
6.  (C//REL GBR)  DE-BAATHIFICATION:  Rep. Pomeroy asked what 
the MOI is doing to address the concerns of the Sunni 
community that it is being widely targeted by the MOI and the 
current government.  On the subject of de-Baathification, 
Jabr stated that people who assume it is targeting all Sunnis 
are misinformed.  The reality, according to Jabr, is that 
many Shias were also Baathists.  The program only targets 
those who were high ranking Baathists in Saddam's regime, and 
it doesn't mean that people can't get jobs, only that they 
can't be given top jobs in the government.  (COMMENT: Jabr's 
portrait of de-Baathification seems a bit overly generous and 
does not conform to what we've heard from a wide range of 
contacts.  END COMMENT.)  With regard to diversity in the 
MOI, Jabr told the congressmen that the Chief of Police in 
Baghdad is a Sunni, the commander of all Special Police units 
is a Sunni, the head of the Major Crimes Unit is a Sunni, the 
General in charge of election security is a Sunni, the head 
of the Finance unit is Sunni.  Reports that the MOI is a 
"Shia" organization are just "rumors."  (COMMENT:  What Jabr 
says is true, but the fact remains that a large percentage of 
the forces on the street are Shia, and despite who their 
commanding officers may be, they are widely perceived to be 
"Shia units."  END COMMENT.) 
 
7. (SBU)  QUALITY OF MOI FORCES:  Rep. Kind asked about the 
quality and morale of the MOI forces.  Jabr replied that they 
are mostly young men who must pass literacy and physical 
standards to join, and that if he announced openings he'd 
have half a million applicants.  The young people who are 
coming forward are doing so because they want to serve Iraq 
and they are proud to do so.  Rep. Kind pointed out that this 
was his third visit to Iraq, and each time he came it seemed 
as if the security was getting tighter and tighter.  He 
wondered whether this indicated a worsening of the situation. 
 He also wanted to know whether Jabr believes Iraqis are 
turning against the insurgency.  Jabr replied that the fact 
security is tighter is not an indication that things are 
worse but rather that his forces are more visible.  He 
reiterated that foreign fighters continue to come to Iraq and 
want to see the U.S. defeated.  Local people are beginning to 
turn against the terrorists.  He does not believe there is a 
"civil war" taking place in Iraq and said that if this were 
to happen, it would split families and tribes.  Rep. Campuano 
asked that if things are getting better, why can't U.S. 
forces depart.  Jabr said that the U.S. cannot withdrawal 
until the ISF are fully capable, and that point has not yet 
been reached.  The U.S. must stay to continue training the 
ISF, to help Iraq realize its dreams for democracy, and to 
help defeat the terrorists.  "We need to stay the course", 
Jabr concluded. 
 
8.  (SBU)  REFERENDUM SECURITY:  The congressmen received a 
short briefing on the security measures that will be in place 
to assure the safety and success of the upcoming referendum. 
Rep. Shays asked for a prediction on the outcome of the 
referendum and Jabr replied that he believes it will pass. 
If it does not, the Iraqis would consider it to be a first 
try and would continue to try again until an agreement is 
reached.  He expressed gratitude to Ambassador Khalilzad and 
the United States for all that has been done to try to bridge 
the gaps between the different Iraqi communities. 
 
 
Khalilzad