US embassy cable - 05HANOI2511

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 04 HANOI 002511 
 
SIPDIS 
 
SENSITIVE 
 
DEPT PASS TO EAP/MLS; EAP/RSP 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: PREL, PGOV, PINR, KN, VM, DPRK 
SUBJECT:  EAP DAS Eric John's Meeting with Communist Party 
External Affairs Director 
 
Ref:  Hanoi 2154 
 
1. (SBU) Summary:  EAP Deputy Assistant Secretary of State 
Eric John met Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) Commission on 
External Affairs Director for the Western Europe and 
Americas Department Pham Tien Nhien at the CPV headquarters 
September 27.  The Ambassador, EAP Mainland Southeast Asia 
Director Scot Marciel and PolOff accompanied him.  Nhien 
engaged in lengthy paeans to the health of the bilateral 
relationship and pointed out ideological connections between 
Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln and Ho Chi Minh.  He 
acknowledged that some bad feelings between Americans and 
Vietnamese still exist, and must be addressed, but 
proclaimed the bilateral relationship to be on a "solid 
foundation."  He and DAS John exchanged views on North 
Korea, and Nhien lamented Vietnam's lack of influence over 
the regime and inability to persuade the DPRK to follow the 
Vietnamese economic reform model.  End Summary. 
 
2. (SBU) Opening the discussion, Nhien apologized for the 
torrential rain and high wind, noting that Vietnam was 
enduring the worst typhoon to hit the country in decades. 
In the previous 24 hours, Vietnam had evacuated more than 
300,000 residents of high-risk coastal areas, more than had 
ever been evacuated for a storm before.  Despite the 
typhoon, he said, Vietnam and the CPV welcomed DAS John's 
visit. 
 
DPRK 
---- 
 
3. (SBU) Nhien observed that DAS John's previous assignment 
was as Political Minister/Counselor in Seoul and asked if he 
would provide information on the recent round of six-party 
talks, to which DAS John provided a general readout.  In 
response to Nhien's question about a recent news report that 
Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific 
Affairs Christopher Hill would travel to Pyongyang,  DAS 
John said he had heard no official information on any 
possible trip to North Korea.  On the subject of North 
Korea, however, DAS John expressed the USG's appreciation 
for Vietnam's "humanitarian" treatment of sensitive 
situations involving DPRK refugees in Vietnam.  He 
recognized that relations between North Korea and Vietnam 
are both "special and difficult" and said that the GVN's 
actions on behalf of the refugees, while possibly negative 
for Vietnam's relations with Pyongyang, would be positive 
for its relations with other countries. 
 
4. (SBU) Nhien said that during his visit to Washington, 
D.C., in July 2005, he had the opportunity to have some 
discussions on the subject of North Korea and refugees with 
several interlocutors, including Senate Foreign Relations 
Committee senior staffer Keith Luse.  Luse and others had 
asked him to help leverage Vietnam's relationship with the 
DPRK to promote "productive developments" on the Korean 
Peninsula.  Vietnam acknowledges that its relations with the 
DPRK are more substantial and better than U.S.-DPRK 
relations, and that over the past few months there have been 
improvements in Hanoi-Pyongyang ties.  However, the actual 
influence of Vietnam over the DPRK remains extremely 
limited.  The North Koreans "love their Juche doctrine of 
self-reliance, and no matter what others say, they act on 
their own."  If anyone at all has influence over North 
Korea, Nhien concluded, it must be the Chinese. 
 
5. (SBU) Nhien warned that the United States must focus more 
on developing its relationship with the DPRK.  "I have a 
feeling that there is not enough trust between the North 
Korean people and the United States," he said confidently. 
"From the U.S. side, you don't trust the North Korean 
willingness to follow through on their commitments.  From 
the North Korean side, they are afraid that if they give 
away their nuclear weapons, they could be attacked." 
Without trust, he said, an agreement is impossible.  This 
was an observation he said he made as an official of 
Vietnam, a country familiar with a distrustful relationship 
with the United States. 
 
Bilateral Relations Strong, but Mistrust Remains 
--------------------------------------------- --- 
 
6. (SBU) Turning to U.S.-Vietnam relations, Nhien said that 
in past years there have been many improvements, and the 
level of mutual trust has been elevated "to a great extent." 
The peak of the relationship in recent years was reached 
during the successful visit of Prime Minister Phan Van Khai 
to Washington in June.  "The road from mistrust to 
confidence has been a long one, and even now I would 
hesitate to say we have full confidence in each other." 
That residual lack of confidence is "understandable," he 
explained, "because prejudice remains among parts of the 
U.S. and Vietnamese peoples."  He cited the 2004 U.S. 
Presidential campaign as evidence that the "Vietnam 
syndrome" is still a problem in the United States.  In 
certain parts of the Vietnamese population, people continue 
to see the United States as a wartime enemy.  However, it is 
the policy of the CPV and the GVN that, once relations with 
a country are normalized, the Party and State will try to 
improve the relationship step by step.  The Ambassador 
interjected that the real surprise is that bitterness 
between the two populations is so rare, not that it exists. 
And what bitterness there is does not affect the 
relationship, the Ambassador added. 
 
Addressing the War's Legacy 
--------------------------- 
 
7. (SBU) "We should never forget the suffering experienced 
by both sides of the war," the Ambassador continued.  "And 
we must maintain our efforts to manage the legacy of that 
war, such as demining and unexploded ordinance clearance, an 
area where the United States has done a great deal."  The 
United States is grateful to the GVN and the Vietnamese 
people for the exceptional effort to assist with the fullest 
possible accounting of personnel missing in action from the 
wars in Indochina, he said.  Vietnamese MIA numbers are also 
very high and the United States wants to help Vietnam 
account for its personnel as well.  The other step the GVN 
should take to resolve these issues is to make a greater 
effort to reach out to the Vietnamese-American community, 
the Ambassador advised.  There is more reconciliation to be 
done.  Finally, the Ambassador recommended, both sides need 
to seek a more constructive way to address the Agent Orange 
issue; we should have greater dialogue and seek out creative 
ways to work together. 
 
8. (SBU) Nhien agreed with the Ambassador, and said that in 
addition to official ties, the efforts of non-governmental 
organizations and individuals can make a positive difference 
in bilateral relations.  As an example, he cited the recent 
publication of the war diary of a female Vietnamese doctor 
who was killed during the war.  A U.S. soldier found the 
diary and kept it for over thirty years, only recently 
returning it to Vietnam on a visit.  The diary has become 
one of the best-selling books in Vietnam among young people, 
and the care with which the U.S. veteran and his brother 
handled the diary before returning it to Vietnam greatly 
impressed the Vietnamese people.  "The reaction of society, 
especially youth, to the publication of this book has 
demonstrated the extent to which the popular attitude 
towards the United States has changed.  It is clear that 
people-to-people relations improve mutual sympathy and 
understanding very much."  (Note:  Actually, the original of 
the diary is still retained at Texas Tech University's 
Vietnam Center.  End Note.) 
 
Strong Bilateral Relations in Both Countries' Interest 
--------------------------------------------- --------- 
 
9. (SBU) Returning to his talking points, Nhien said GVN 
policy is "to develop the bilateral relations according to 
the framework between the two leaders expressed in the Joint 
Statement of the PM's visit as two partners of cooperation, 
stability and development."  The Ambassador, he observed, 
had discussed the issue of bilateral relations with 
Politburo member and Standing Member of the Secretariat Phan 
Dien (reftel).  Phan Dien made clear that Vietnam attaches 
"great importance to the role of the United States in the 
world as well as the relationship between the two 
countries."  It was no coincidence that Phan Dien had 
discussed Ho Chi Minh's 1945 ideology, or that he had 
highlighted the fact that Vietnam's Declaration of 
Independence begins with the Preamble to the U.S. 
Declaration of Independence.  Continuing the "Great 
Americans" theme, Nhien catalogued his own visit to the 
Jefferson Memorial in Washington, where he read the words 
that found their way into Ho Chi Minh's 1945 speech, and to 
the other end of Independence Avenue, where Nhien said he 
"discovered what was stated by Abraham Lincoln: that 
government is of the people, by the people and for the 
people." 
 
10. (SBU) Nhien said that it is "our belief that relations 
between the United States and Vietnam will develop, because 
relations are commensurate with the interests of the two 
peoples, as well as the region and the world at large." 
However, the development of positive relations requires 
political will from both sides and the cooperation of the 
populations on both sides.  Nonetheless, Nhien said he feels 
as though "there is a firm foundation for building a whole 
house." 
11. (SBU) DAS John responded that, in the United States, 
there is a limited and decreasing number of people who do 
not recognize the growing U.S.-Vietnam relationship. 
Contrasting his experience with the bilateral relationship 
in 1989 (when he first worked on Vietnam issues) and today, 
the progress is "astonishing," DAS John said.  Both sides 
benefit from economic and cultural ties, and consultations 
with policy makers in both countries convinced him that 
"there is no area of policy difference where we do not have 
a work plan to resolve our differences."  On issues like WTO 
accession, which are highly important to Vietnam, the real 
problems are technical and require only time and effort for 
negotiators to resolve. 
 
DPRK, Continued 
--------------- 
 
12. (SBU) The DPRK has a lot to learn from Vietnam, DAS John 
said.  Both countries fought difficult wars, but Vietnam is 
now a regional actor and increasingly internationally 
integrated.  Pyongyang has done none of that, remains 
isolated and is blind to the welfare of its citizens.  DAS 
John encouraged Vietnam to convince North Korea to follow 
Vietnam's lead in taking a responsible position in the world 
community. 
 
13. (SBU) Nhien noted wryly that he traveled to Pyongyang in 
1989, and that things had not changed in the ensuing 16 
years.  The same unfinished buildings are still unfinished, 
and the rationing system is still in place.  DAS John 
advised that there is one significant difference:  in 1989 
there were goods to ration, but in 2005 there are only 
ration tickets.  Nhien said the North Koreans are 
experimenting with economic reform, including creating 
markets in the countryside and in cities, thus improving 
production.  Some export processing zones have also been 
built near the Chinese border.  As further evidence of North 
Korean reform, Nhien cited an upcoming visit by DPRK 
"delegations" to Hanoi to observe the Vietnamese economic 
liberalization experience.  However, he caveated:  "We 
recognize that the experience of one country, no matter how 
good, cannot be completely applied to another country.  We 
cannot tell our North Korean friends that they should copy 
our model, although we want to." 
 
Comment 
------- 
 
14. (SBU) Pham Tien Nhien is a fairly regular contact of the 
Embassy by virtue of his position as head of the Party's 
"Americas Desk."  He is usually fairly reserved and sticks 
close to well-scrubbed and familiar points that are, at 
best, warily neutral towards the United States.  This 
meeting was a remarkable departure from the usual 
boilerplate and reflected Nhien's perception of a personal 
connection between him and DAS John. 
 
15. (SBU) Comment continued:  The riff on Ho Chi Minh's 
being an ideological blood brother of the U.S. Founding 
Fathers is consistent with the GVN line that has percolated 
through the official media since last winter and does not by 
itself reflect any new warming trend between the CPV and the 
USG.  Nhien's friendliness, however, is a positive 
development, and the lengthy engagement (and commiseration) 
on North Korea demonstrates the degree to which the concept 
of the United States and Vietnam sharing common 
international interests has taken root even in the infertile 
soil of the Communist Party Headquarters.  End Comment. 
 
16. (U) DAS John cleared this cable. 
 
MARINE