US embassy cable - 02HANOI2612

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 02 HANOI 002612 
 
SIPDIS 
 
STATE FOR DRL DAS CARPENTER AND EAP DAS DALEY 
 
E.O. 12958: DECL: 10/30/12 
TAGS: PHUM, PINS, PREL, SOCI, VM, HUMANR 
SUBJECT:  VIETNAM AND HUMAN RIGHTS 
 
REF:  HANOI 2345 
 
1. (U) CLASSIFIED BY AMBASSADOR RAYMOND BURGHARDT, 
                       CONFIDENTIAL 
 
PAGE 02        HANOI  02612  01 OF 02  300231Z 
REASON: 1.5 (D) 
 
2. (C)  THE NOVEMBER 8 HUMAN RIGHTS DIALOGUE WITH 
VIETNAM WILL BE ANOTHER IMPORTANT STEP IN OUR EFFORTS 
TO DEEPEN OUR BILATERAL RELATIONSHIP AND TO REITERATE 
THE GENUINE CONCERN FELT IN THE U.S. -- WITHIN THE 
ADMINISTRATION, CONGRESS, AND THE PUBLIC -- ABOUT HUMAN 
RIGHTS ABUSES AND SYSTEMIC PROBLEMS IN VIETNAM. 
EMBASSY APPRECIATES THE ONGOING PREPARATION BY DRL AND 
EAP AND WELCOMES THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEND HUMAN RIGHTS 
OFFICER TIM SWANSON TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS SESSION, AS 
WELL AS THE SUBSEQUENT POLITICAL DIALOGUE ON NOVEMBER 
15.  THE US-VIETNAM HUMAN RIGHTS DIALOGUE OPERATES IN 
PARALLEL WITH SIMILAR REGULAR OR SEMI-REGULAR EXCHANGES 
(USUALLY NOT LABELED AS SPECIFIC "HUMAN RIGHTS" 
DIALOGUES) WITH THE EU, AUSTRALIA, CANADA, SWEDEN, 
NORWAY, AND SWITZERLAND. 
 
3.  (C)  THERE SHOULD BE NO ILLUSIONS, HOWEVER, THAT WE 
SHOULD EXPECT ANY MEETING OF THE MINDS BETWEEN THE TWO 
DELEGATIONS ON THE NATURE OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND THE 
EXTENT OF PROBLEMS IN VIETNAM.  GVN OFFICIALS REMAIN 
OFFICIALLY WEDDED TO THE PROPAGANDA THAT THE CPV HAS 
BEEN THE SAVIOR OF THE VIETNAMESE PEOPLE FROM CENTURIES 
OF WHAT THEY SEE AS TYRANNY BY OUTSIDE FORCES, 
INCLUDING THE U.S.  AS SUCH, THEY VIEW THE CPV (AND, 
THROUGH IT, THE GVN ITSELF) AS THE CREATOR (NOT EVEN 
RESTORER) OF THOSE RIGHTS NOW ENJOYED BY THE PEOPLE OF 
VIETNAM, PRIMARILY THAT OF NATIONAL INDEPENDENCE BUT 
ALSO OF THE LARGER SOCIETAL "RIGHTS" OF STABILITY, 
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, AND EQUALITY.  TO GVN OFFICIALS, 
                       CONFIDENTIAL 
 
PAGE 03        HANOI  02612  01 OF 02  300231Z 
THE BOTTOM LINE QUESTIONS WHEN TALKING ABOUT HUMAN 
RIGHTS IN VIETNAM REMAIN "ARE THE LIVES OF THE 
VIETNAMESE PEOPLE BETTER NOW THAN BEFORE 1986 (WHEN THE 
POLICY OF DOI MOI BEGAN)? THAN BEFORE 1975?  THAN 
BEFORE 1954?"  THE CPV CLAIM THAT THE ANSWER IN ALL 
THREE CASES IS "YES" IS PROBABLY MOSTLY CORRECT, EXCEPT 
FOR THE GREATER CIVIL LIBERTIES, E.G., PRESS AND 
RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, ENJOYED IN THE SOUTH BEFORE 1975. 
(REFTEL DESCRIBED SOME OF THE IMPORTANT EXPANSIONS IN 
PERSONAL FREEDOMS AT LEAST SINCE 1986.) 
 
4.  (C)  SUSPICIONS REMAIN DEEP AND REAL THAT THE U.S. 
HAS SOME SINISTER AGENDA -- CALL IT PEACEFUL EVOLUTION, 
OR GLOBALIZATION, OR HEGEMONY, OR WHATEVER -- IN 
RAISING HUMAN RIGHTS WITH VIETNAM AND OTHER LIKE 
COUNTRIES.  GVN AND CPV OFFICIALS DO NOT BELIEVE THAT 
OUR INTEREST IS BENIGN AND THAT WE GENUINELY CARE ABOUT 
THE PEOPLE OF VIETNAM.  MANY OF THEM STILL BELIEVE THAT 
OUR REAL GOAL REMAINS TO DEFEAT GLOBAL COMMUNISM AND 
ENSURE THAT THESE REGIMES TURN INTO AMERICAN-STYLE 
DEMOCRACIES.  THEY SEE THE U.S. AS A WORLD-CLASS BULLY 
INTENT ON IMPOSING ITS OWN VALUES ON COUNTRIES -- 
INCLUDING VIETNAM -- THAT, BECAUSE THEY NEED ACCESS TO 
OUR MARKETS, ARE OBLIGED TO LISTEN TO US COMPLAINTS AND 
CRITICISMS, WHILE PUBLICLY REJECTING THE US' RIGHT TO 
"INTERFERE IN INTERNAL AFFAIRS."   EVEN THE MEMBERS OF 
THE DELEGATION WHO ARE MOST SAVVY ABOUT THE US SYSTEM 
AND IDEALS LIKELY BELIEVE THAT AT THE VERY LEAST THESE 
US CONCERNS ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS IN VIETNAM ARE NO MORE 
THAN NITPICKING ABOUT ISSUES AND SITUATIONS THAT WE DO 
NOT TRULY UNDERSTAND. 
                       CONFIDENTIAL 
 
PAGE 04        HANOI  02612  01 OF 02  300231Z 
 
5.  (C)  BUT THE VIETNAMESE INSISTENCE -- BOTH IN THE 
CONSTITUTION AS WELL AS IN SECTIONS OF THE PENAL CODE 
APPLIED TO FATHER NGUYEN VAN LY AND A MORE RECENT CASE 
INVOLVING LE CHI QUANG --ON THE ENSHRINED PRIORITY OF 
NATIONAL SOLIDARITY, AS WELL AS THE FREQUENT REFERENCES 
TO THREATS TO INTERNAL STABILITY, MAY REFLECT AN 
UNACKNOWLEDGED ANXIETY THAT LONGER TERM TRENDS FOR 
VIETNAM DO INDEED NOT FAVOR THE CONTINUED MONOPOLY