US embassy cable - 05TRIPOLI221

S E C R E T  TRIPOLI 000221 
 
 
STATE FOR NEA/MAG, 
PLEASE PASS TO SENATOR LUGAR 
LONDON FOR TSOU 
 
E.O. 12958: DECL:  8/31/2015 
TAGS: PGOV, PTER, PHUM, LY, BU 
SUBJECT: SENATOR LUGAR'S MEETING WITH QADHAFI AUGUST 20 
 
CLASSIFIED BY: Gregory L. Berry, COM, USLO, Tripoli. 
REASON: 1.4 (b), (d) 
 
1.   (C)  SUMMARY.  In a conversation with Senator Lugar on 
August 20, Colonel Qadhafi complained that Libya had not been 
properly recognized and rewarded for its decisions on WMD.  He 
suggested that the most appropriate "rewards" would be defensive 
weapons to protect the country against the threat of emerging 
extremist regimes in its neighbors, and the application of 
nuclear technology for peaceful purposes.  Qadhafi insisted that 
the greatest threat to the region came from religious extremism, 
which he regarded as inextricably linked to the Saudi regime. 
END SUMMARY. 
 
2.  (C).  Senator Richard Lugar, accompanied by NEA PDAS Gordon 
Gray, NSC Director Tim Pounds, Chief of Staff Ken Myers, Jr and 
professional staff members of the Senate Foreign Relations 
Committee Daniel Diller and Michael Phelan, traveled to Sirte on 
August 20 to meet with Libyan leader Qadhafi.  USLO COM and 
Acting DCM escorted the delegation to Sirte.  Qadhafi, swathed 
in an embroidered robe with a matching cap, greeted the entire 
delegation in his desert encampment at midday.   Qadhafi's 
advisors said they had taken him from a day of rest and fasting 
to accommodate the delegation's tight schedule.  Given the 
intense noontime heat, Qadhafi's advisors arranged for a water 
truck to spray cooling mist in the immediate area in an attempt 
to lower the temperature.  Qadhafi, initially distracted and 
swatting the air with his favorite prop, a branch of desert 
scrub brush, opened up the meeting by saying that the 
delegation's time in Libya was too short and the timing was 
difficult.  Senator Lugar expressed appreciation for the 
Libyans' hospitality and said he hoped the countries would 
normalize relations.  Lugar said he wanted to learn more about 
how to move the relationship forward.  Lugar told Qadhafi that 
the U.S. appreciated Libya's decision to give up its WMD and 
noted its concern about the State Sponsors of Terrorism List. 
Lugar hoped that there would be more visitors to Libya, 
including student exchanges and scientific cooperation, 
particularly in the energy sector.  Lugar expressed his concern 
about human rights, especially the Bulgarian and Palestinian 
medics and Fathi al-Jahmi. 
 
3.  (C)  Qadhafi became more engaged as Senator Lugar thanked 
him for receiving members of Congress as part of the expanding 
bilateral relationship.   Qadhafi replied that Libya's objective 
was improved relations.  It was not Libya's wish for 
confrontation caused by a lack of communication.  As a small, 
developing nation, Libya had no interest in hostilities with 
superpowers.  Qadhafi made a case that the former hostility 
between the U.S. and Libya was perhaps due to occasional 
misunderstandings because of the circumstances of the Cold War 
and East/West blocs.  He said that some parties had an interest 
in creating problems between the U.S. and Libya, but that now 
the enemies of yesterday are friends, noting, "Egypt is now a 
friend of the U.S., that is a big change in the region." 
Qadhafi also described the Palestinian/Israeli dialogue as a 
hopeful sign.  Qadhafi said he wanted to avoid mistakes and a 
relapse in the relationship.  "No one benefited from 
confrontation in the past; everyone lost."  He continued, "we 
need to change our policies for mutual benefit." 
 
4.  (C)   "Libya's steps are a service to world peace," said 
Qadhafi, as he moved deeper into his opening monologue. 
Qadhafi took credit for helping Bush and Blair win reelection 
and said Libya wanted to help the U.S. and the UK out of 
conviction and principle.  Libya's assessment was that it didn't 
benefit from having a nuclear bomb, so it decided to abandon its 
programs.  Qadhafi also claimed Libya was told it would be 
rewarded by Blair and Bush for its decision, but "Libya has not 
been rewarded."  He said that Libya was urging North Korea and 
Iran to give up their WMD programs, but "they say Libya's 
experience is a bad example, and this is true."  According to 
Qadhafi, the Libyans are disappointed that more rewards have not 
materialized; "the idea of shifting from military to peaceful 
use is made insignificant."  Qadhafi said the U.S. should 
seriously reconsider its response. 
 
5.  (C)  Qadhafi emphasized that Libya needs to guarantee its 
self protection.  Libya was not asking for offensive, but rather 
defensive equipment in accordance with international law: 
"Libya has a right and a need to protect itself."  He continued, 
"we were promised the U.S. would help, but there has been no 
action."  The world needed to see that the peaceful uses of 
nuclear energy were more beneficial than military uses; it 
needed to see the direct impact on economic development for 
Libya.  "We expected Japan, China, the UK and U.S. would reward 
Libya; we are sorry that we have been ignored; we are looking 
for reward from the whole world."  Qadhafi reiterated that Libya 
took an unprecedented step to end its WMD program, a historic 
decision in service of world peace and security.  Instead of 
being rewarded, Libya was attacked by the Muslim and Arab 
politicians and press.  Libya was "called foolish for 
surrendering its power and advantage without any compensation," 
he said. 
 
6.  (C)  Lugar responded that the U.S. worked to renew the 
relationship in stages; it recognized and appreciated the Libyan 
steps.  Business opportunities and tourism had expanded for 
Libya and it was possible to cooperate on mutual defense.  Lugar 
said, "we respect and want to enhance Libya's security; we 
understand your feelings and want to change the status quo to 
get Libya off the State Sponsors of Terrorism List."  Lugar 
emphasized that with cooperation and a couple of key decisions, 
the U.S. believed removal from the list was close at hand.   He 
also explained that when Qadhafi and Bush agreed to normalize 
the bilateral relationship, both the Senate and the U.S. 
citizens, would review President Bush's decision and Lugar hoped 
to hold a constructive and successful debate that would confirm 
the normalization.  "Libya has other friends thanks to your 
reception of other congressmen," Lugar said.  "It is an 
important moment for us; we want to have all the good news 
possible," he continued.   While the friends of Libya want to 
advance the relationship, Lugar said, "we need help with visas 
for official visitors and the business community."  He also 
pointed out the importance of prompt issuance of Libyan visas 
for teachers at the American school.  Lugar offered "words of 
assurance that we are moving toward the finish line," and 
expressed gratitude for all the information shared by the Libyan 
officials who had met with the delegation. 
 
7.  (C)  At that point of the discussion, Qadhafi decided to 
move into a private session with Senator Lugar and COM. 
In the smaller meeting, Qadhafi repeated his refrain that Libya 
had not been rewarded for giving up its WMD, acknowledging that 
some benefits had accrued, but "not what is requested; Libya is 
patiently waiting."  He characterized student exchange, an 
American school and business activities in Libya as "welcome, 
but as good for the U.S. as for Libya."  Senator Lugar asked 
Qadhafi what he specifically had in mind.  After some byplay, 
Qadhafi focused on two points as appropriate "rewards."  First, 
he wanted Libya to be able to defend itself with defensive 
weapons if, as he fears, extremist elements should take control 
in Algeria, Tunis, Egypt or Sudan (the world is "living on a 
volcano," with the risk of extremist explosions in many 
countries).  Second, Qadhafi wanted  to demonstrate the 
potential benefits of nuclear technology, as in desalination 
programs.  He needed something to prove to the Libyan people 
that the world recognized the wisdom of Libya's decision on WMD. 
 
8.  (S) Turning then to the threat of terrorism, Qadhafi plunged 
into his now-familiar analysis of Wahhabism, which he sees as 
inextricably linked to the Saudi regime, and the dangers it 
poses for the region.  The U.S. mistakenly has dismissed his 
concerns about the Saudis as nothing more than the result of a 
sour Libyan-Saudi bilateral relationship, Qadhafi said.  In 
fact, his analysis has nothing to do with the personal 
disagreement between him and then-Crown Prince Abdullah.  The 
fact is that, if the world wants to destroy terrorism root and 
branch, it must remove the base of terrorist activity and 
ideology by opposing Wahhabism.  "A Libyan goes to the hajj and 
becomes indoctrinated," he said -- "thousands are being 
indoctrinated."  The U.S. will pay a heavy price for its 
continued support for Saudi Arabia.  The longer the present 
Saudi regime remains in power, the more likely it is to be 
replaced by religious extremists.  (In passing, Qadhafi argued 
that a strong secular regime in Syria would continue to resist 
extremists inspired by Usama bin Laden, and the U.S. should 
adjust its policy toward Syria accordingly.)  He stressed that 
he strongly opposed the use of force to change the regime in 
Saudi Arabia; instead, the U.S. should change its political 
position to support dedicated Saudi reformers.  If we actively 
support "the Saudi people's right to self-determination," we 
would see the kingdom peacefully dissolve into its constituent 
provinces -- "the same thing that happened with the USSR."  When 
Lugar asked skeptically how a moderate group would come to power 
if Saudi Arabia underwent a political transformation, Qadhafi 
insisted that it would be a natural process -- "the peoples 
would break off by themselves." 
 
9.  (C)  Senator Lugar brought the conversation back to ongoing 
U.S.-Libyan cooperation on counterterrorism and 
non-proliferation, saying that we need to work together and need 
to be thoughtful about the use of nuclear energy for peaceful 
purposes.  Qadhafi said that he would rely on the Senator to 
relay his message, but would also like to meet directly with 
President Bush.  "Libya is still waiting," he said, for the 
promised benefits from its December 2003 decisions.  He added 
that he would also like to talk with the President about Africa 
and "the new colonialism from the East" (i.e., growing Chinese 
and Indian influence in Africa).  Qadhafi also suggested that 
Secretary Rice should visit Libya:  "When she comes to the area 
but does not stop in Libya, people may say there's a boycott." 
At the close of the meeting, the Lugar delegation flew back to 
Tripoli and met with other senior Libyan officials (reported 
septel). 
 
BERRY