US embassy cable - 05VATICAN515

C O N F I D E N T I A L  VATICAN 000515 
 
SIPDIS 
 
 
DEPT. FOR EUR/WE (TCUNNINGHAM); EUR/SE 
 
E.O. 12958: DECL:  8/26/2015 
TAGS: PHUM, PREL, SOCI, TU, VT 
SUBJECT: TURKISH DIPLOMAT SOUR ON RELATIONS WITH VATICAN 
 
REF: 04 VATICAN 3196; ISTANBUL 1333; ANKARA 4653 
 
CLASSIFIED BY: Peter Martin, Political Officer, POL, STATE. 
REASON: 1.4 (b), (d) 
 
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Summary 
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1.  (C) Turkish diplomat Ali Riza Ozcoskun (protect) complained 
to us recently about the poor state of Holy See - Turkish 
relations, charging that there is simply no dialogue between the 
two states.  He went over the well-known stalemate, explaining 
that the Catholic Church sought certain legal assurances from 
Turkey that as a secular state it could not offer.  Ozcoskun 
judged the potential papal trip to Istanbul to be a no-win 
situation for the GoT under the circumstances, since the pope 
going to Istanbul without meeting top-level Turkish authorities 
would be just as bad as his forgoing the trip altogether. 
Ozcoskun recognizes that the Vatican's official position on 
Turkey's EU candidacy is that it sees "no obstacle" to its entry 
as long as the GoT fulfills the EU's Copenhagen criteria.  But 
he said the Holy See had not been straightforward enough in 
correcting misimpressions of that policy when cardinals or 
others in the hierarchy - most notably Cardinal Ratzinger - 
strayed from the party line.  It is unclear if the papal trip to 
Istanbul will actually occur, but if it does it will have as 
much of a political subtext as an ecumenical one.  End Summary. 
 
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"What Relations?" 
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2  (C) Ali Riza Ozcoskun (protect), the outgoing DCM at the 
Embassy of Turkey to the Holy See, told us recently that 
Vatican-Turkey relations were on the rocks.  "What relations?" 
he retorted when asked about the state of affairs between the 
two countries.  He complained that the two had no dialogue, and 
that the last time a high-level GoT minister came to Rome, 
Ozcoskun had a hard time convincing him he should see anyone at 
the Vatican.  "What could I say?" he said.  "There's nothing to 
talk about." 
 
3.  (C) Ozcoskun went over the well-known stalemate, explaining 
that the Catholic Church sought certain legal assurances from 
Turkey that as a secular state it could not offer.  "We don't do 
this to discriminate against Christians," he said, "but to guard 
against radical Muslims."  In the event of Turkish entry into 
the EU, he said, the stance would become moot in any case, as 
Turkey would have to adhere to EU norms.  For this reason he 
thought it silly that some within the Vatican were lukewarm or 
worse towards Turkey joining the club.  In fact, it would bring 
them many of the things they're looking for, he insisted. 
 
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Papal Visit to Istanbul 
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4.  (C) Pope Benedict is considering a visit to the Ecumenical 
Patriarch in Istanbul for the November 30 feast of St. Andrew, 
an event of great importance to the Orthodox.  According to 
Ozcoskun, even the consideration of the trip is a no-win 
situation for the GoT under the circumstances.  "If the pope 
comes and doesn't make it a state visit, it looks bad for 
Turkey.  If he doesn't come, it still looks bad for Turkey," he 
said.  Ozcoskun recounted that he had proposed that the GoT 
organize a conference to be attended by the top leaders in 
Istanbul just before the possible papal visit.  In this way, 
Turkey could manufacture an opportunity for a meeting with the 
pope in a face-saving way, since, according to Ozcoskun, 
Benedict would certainly not go to Ankara.  Ozcoskun didn't get 
much of a hearing on the idea.  Ankara is "in no mood" to bend 
over backwards for the Vatican, he reported. 
 
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EU Membership 
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5.  (C) Oscoskun was sensitive about Pope Benedict's highly 
publicized criticism of Turkey's EU candidacy (made as Cardinal 
Ratzinger prior to his election as pope).  When reminded that 
the official line of the Holy See on the issue was one of 
neutrality as long as Turkey lived up to the EU's Copenhagen 
criteria (04 VATICAN 3196), Ozcoskun agreed, but was not 
satisfied.  "[At the time of the Ratzinger interview] and at 
other times, the Vatican insists that it isn't against us, but 
they always do so in private."  [Comment: Ozcoskun makes a good 
point - at the time of the Ratzinger controversy we spoke with 
FM Lajolo and encouraged him to reinforce the Holy See's view in 
light of confusing media accounts of Ratzinger's comments.  He 
 
confirmed the Vatican position, but did not counter the cardinal 
in public.  End Comment] Ozcoskun said he didn't think Vatican 
opposition could thwart Turkey's EU bid, but "could certainly 
make it more difficult." 
 
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The Pope of the Orthodox 
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6.  (C)  Ozcoskun did not seem to be current on tensions between 
Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew and the GoT.  When asked, for 
example, about recent controversy surrounding a youth summer 
camp sponsored by Bartholomew (ISTANBUL 1333; ANKARA 4653), 
Ozcoskun waved it off.  "There's always something," he said.  He 
claimed that Bartholomew was trying to become "the pope of the 
Orthodox," but suggested that tensions among the various 
patriarchs, particularly with Moscow, would thwart his goals. 
 
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Comment 
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7.  (C) The Holy See is still considering the Istanbul trip, 
though at World Youth Day in Cologne August 20, the Vatican 
spokesman said that nothing had been fixed on the calendar.  A 
curial contact told us August 25 that he "wouldn't bet the 
grocery money" on the trip actually happening, but others have 
noted the strong appeal to Pope Benedict of making a grand 
gesture for Catholic-Orthodox relations.  The thrust for him and 
for many would be this ecumenical relationship, but there would 
be no escaping the diplomatic subtext of Turkey and the EU.  As 
for Ozcoskun, we had not had substantial contact with him before 
this farewell call.  He does not seem to have been very active 
in the Vatican diplomatic corps, and is certainly happy to be 
heading back to Ankara now. 
 
SANDROLINI 
 
 
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 2005VATICA00515 - Classification: CONFIDENTIAL