US embassy cable - 05VATICAN489

C O N F I D E N T I A L  VATICAN 000489 
 
SIPDIS 
 
 
DEPT. FOR EUR/WE JLEVIN 
 
E.O. 12958: DECL:  7/1/2015 
TAGS: PREL, PGOV, EPET, VE, VT, EUN 
SUBJECT: AFTER TENSIONS, VATICAN SEEKING MORE CONSTRUCTIVE 
RELATIONSHIP WITH VENEZUELA 
 
REF: A) STATE 117165 B) STATE 121641 (NOTAL) C) USEU BRUSSELS 2481 
 
CLASSIFIED BY: D. Brent Hardt, Charge D'Affaires, EXEC, STATE. 
REASON: 1.4 (b), (d) 
 
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Summary 
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1.  (C)  Holy See Deputy Foreign Minister Pietro Parolin told 
the Charge that the Vatican had decided to pursue the path of 
dialogue and offer "an outstretched hand" when dealing with the 
government of Venezuela, despite past tensions.  In response to 
ref (a) and (b) points and inquiries, Parolin said that after a 
period of difficult relations, the Holy See saw some signs of 
"new hope" for a thaw, pointing to Venezuela's recent 
appointment of a new ambassador to the Holy See after a long 
gap.  He said the confrontational relationship between the 
former papal nuncio to Venezuela and President Chavez had not 
been productive, so the Holy See was now trying to engage Chavez 
rather than isolate him.  Pope Benedict will be on vacation 
outside of Rome from July 11-28, and would be unavailable for an 
audience with President Chavez if he sought one at that time. 
However, Parolin and Holy See Country Director for Venezuela 
Monsignor Nicolas Thevenin indicated that, if Chavez asked for a 
papal audience, he would almost certainly be granted such an 
audience in line with Holy See's tradition of granting audiences 
to Heads of State from states with whom they have diplomatic 
relations.  No such request has yet been received.  End Summary. 
 
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An Outstretched Hand 
----------------------- 
 
2.  (C)  Holy See Deputy Foreign Minister Pietro Parolin told 
the Charge June 30 that the Vatican had decided to pursue the 
path of dialogue and offer "an outstretched hand" when dealing 
with the government of Venezuela after a very difficult period 
in the Church's relations with President Chavez.  Parolin said 
the Vatican feared that further isolation would drive Chavez 
closer to Castro and encourage the radicalization in his 
policies we were seeking to avoid.  Charge outlined U.S. 
concerns about the regime, which poloff had reviewed earlier in 
the day with Holy See Country Director for Venezuela Monsignor 
Nicolas Thevenin.  Parolin shared U.S. concerns, but insisted 
that confrontation would not help the situation. 
 
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Signs of  a New Climate in Relations 
------------------------------------- 
 
3.  (C) DFM Parolin, more than Thevenin, emphasized what he 
termed signs of a "new climate in relations" between the Holy 
See and Venezuela, which lead him to view the situation "with 
new hope."  Parolin pointed to the appointment of a new 
ambassador to the Holy See from Venezuela, after a long gap with 
a CDA in place, as an example of President Chavez's intention to 
improve relations with the Holy See.  Parolin said the new 
ambassador, Ivan Guillermo Rincon Urdaneta, had told him his 
government was anxious to restart open dialogue with the 
Vatican.  Parolin found him to be an open and frank 
interlocutor, as he had not been afraid to acknowledge problems 
in the relationship. 
 
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Conflict Did Not Help Matters 
------------------------------- 
 
4.  (C) Given the downward slide and mutual recriminations that 
had characterized Chavez's relations with the Church over the 
past two years, Parolin said the Holy See had decided that a 
personal, open approach to Chavez was the most likely way to 
improve relations.  "The personal conflicts between [the former 
papal nuncio to Venezuela, Archbishop Andre] Dupuy and Chavez 
didn't get us anywhere," he said.  Nevertheless, Thevenin 
insisted that Dupuy was not yanked from his post early because 
of his criticism of the government; in fact, he insisted that 
the Holy See had left him in place until he was due for his 
normal rotation to be sure no one got the idea that the Vatican 
was silencing him.  For reasons not entirely clear, Venezuela 
gave agreement to the new nuncio quickly, but has not yet 
arranged for him to present his credentials formerly.   Parolin 
indicated that the Holy See was delaying Ambassador Rincon 
Urdaneta's presentation of credentials until after the nuncio 
had been able to present his own credentials. 
 
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Papal Audience? 
 
 
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5.  (C)  Pope Benedict is due to be out of Rome on vacation from 
July 11-28, so if a Chavez visit to Italy occurred in this 
window, there would be no danger of a papal audience for him. 
The Holy See has also limited private audiences for visiting 
dignitaries in August, when the pope stays at his summer 
residence at Castel Gandolfo.  Parolin and Thevenin both told us 
that the Holy See had as yet received no request for an 
audience, though they had heard rumor of a possible visit to 
Rome.  They both made it clear that Pope Benedict would see 
Chavez if he sought a papal audience while the pope was in Rome. 
 "This is always our modus operandi," Parolin said.  "We seek to 
influence by open dialogue."  Still, Thevenin said that Pope 
Benedict would use such an occasion to register Vatican concerns 
with Chavez, perhaps most forcefully in private remarks.  We 
remarked upon the public relations value of a papal audience or 
any high-level Vatican appointment for Chavez, and noted that 
the government of Venezuela could spin such an event to its 
advantage if the Holy See did not make its concerns about 
government abuses very clear -- publicly. 
 
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Waiting for the New Archbishop 
--------------------------------- 
 
6.  (C)  Parolin seemed optimistic that the government of 
Venezuela would soon agree to the appointment of a new 
archbishop for Caracas, perhaps another indication of the new 
atmosphere ushered in by the new ambassadorial appointment.  He 
noted that under the agreement between the two countries, the 
government could block the appointment of a bishop it deemed 
unacceptable politically.  "We don't have to appoint a Chavez 
supporter, but we can't install a strong opponent," Parolin 
said.  Thevenin was more troubled by the delay in approving the 
Vatican's current choice.  He told us that the Vatican's man 
should not be objectionable to the government, and implied that 
there was really no reason to block him other than to obstruct 
church business. 
 
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Cuba - Venezuela Connection a Concern 
--------------------------------------------- ---- 
 
7.  (C)  While Parolin acknowledged ongoing challenges to civil 
liberties and democratic society in Venezuela, Thevenin engaged 
more deeply on these issues.  He said he was particularly 
concerned about the growing Cuba-Venezuela connection, going so 
far as to say he thought that the anti-American rhetoric coming 
out of Caracas "had been written in Havana."  He said the many 
Cuban doctors and nurses working in Venezuela did not worry him 
as much as the groups of Cuban "teachers and sociologists" who 
were training their counterparts in Venezuela.  The doctors and 
nurses, are of course indoctrinated before leaving Cuba, 
Thevenin said, but "they're just trying to make some money." 
"It's the teachers who can really influence society," he 
concluded.  Thevenin also expressed concern about ref (a) points 
re the Venezuelan government's lack of cooperation on terrorism 
and narco-trafficking, which the Charge emphasized to Parolin. 
 
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Comment 
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8.  (C)  In its dealings with countries of concern such as 
Venezuela, the Holy See generally opts for dialogue over 
confrontation.  Venezuela had initially been an exception to 
this rule, and Venezuelan bishops took a high profile role in 
political developments, speaking out strongly against the 
government.  Having seen little of value from this approach, the 
Holy See has now decided to try engagement, even while it 
recognizes that the road ahead will be rocky.  Monsignor 
Thevenin, an experienced Vatican diplomat of mixed 
French-Italian heritage "with many relatives in the U.S.," may 
be able to help push the Vatican to do more in addressing 
concerns for political liberties, civil society, and 
narco-trafficking.  He took over as country director for Cuba 
and Venezuela two months ago, and, in our conversation took a 
subtly but decidedly harder line than Parolin.  His recent 
posting of over two years at the papal nunciature in Havana 
(where he said he had good contact with USINT Havana) may have 
contributed to these views.  By contrast, the new nuncio in 
Caracas is not considered one of the Holy See's stronger 
nuncios, though one official said he could "surprise."  Even as 
the Vatican tries to reengage with Venezuela, it will almost 
certainly use occasions for dialogue to reinforce its concerns 
for the country's political direction, which could minimize any 
public relations value that the GoV might seek to gain from such 
contacts.  The Vatican will almost certainly encourage and back 
local bishops in their own stands against abuses at home and in 
support of democratic institutions and independent civil society 
 
 
groups, but will rarely want to get out in front of the local 
episcopate. 
 
HARDT 
 
 
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 2005VATICA00489 - Classification: CONFIDENTIAL