US embassy cable - 05HOCHIMINHCITY586

UNCLAS  HO CHI MINH CITY 000586 
 
SIPDIS 
 
 
SENSITIVE 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: PHUM, SOCI, PREL, PGOV, KIRF, VM, RELFREE, HUMANR 
SUBJECT: MEETING WITH ACTIVIST FATHER NGUYEN VAN LY 
 
REF:  HCMC 169 
 
1. (SBU) Summary:  In his first meeting with U.S. officials since 
his release from prison in February, democracy and religious 
freedom activist Father Nguyen Van Ly told us that he would 
continue to oppose Communist rule in Vietnam.  Ly expressed 
skepticism that the GVN would faithfully implement Vietnam's new 
legal framework on religion and voiced criticism of his Church 
leadership for being too soft on the GVN.  Ly was energetic and in 
good spirits, although he is being treated for tuberculosis.  He 
said he was not abused in prison.  End Summary 
 
2. (SBU) On May 25 in Hue, we met with religious freedom and 
democracy activist Father Nguyen Van Ly at the residence of the 
Archbishop of Hue.  This was our first visit with Ly following his 
amnesty and release from prison in February.  (On October 19, 
2001, the Thua Thien Hue Provincial People's Court sentenced Ly to 
two years in prison for violating the terms of his previous 
administrative detention and another thirteen years in prison for 
"damaging the Government's unity policy."  The court also 
sentenced Ly to five years of administrative probation upon 
release from prison.) 
 
3. (SBU) Ly was animated and in good spirits throughout our one- 
hour conversation.  He said that he was not mistreated during his 
latest four-year internment.  Immediately after his arrest in May 
2001, Ly said he launched four hunger strikes over the first four 
months of his confinement to protest his detention.  "After that 
the authorities did not know what to do with me, so they left me 
alone."  Ly was held in solitary confinement in a special wing of 
the prison reserved for special prisoners such dissidents and high 
ranking white collar criminals.  He had his own 12 meter square 
cell with an enclosed 12 meter square yard in which he was allowed 
to exercise twice a day. 
 
4. (SBU) Ly said that the five-year administrative detention order 
against him remains in force.  At first, Hue provincial officials 
sought to interpret that ruling to restrict him to the single ward 
of the city in which the Archbishop's residence is located. 
However, after he threatened public protest, he was allowed to 
travel freely throughout the city.  He is permitted to travel 
outside of Hue with the prior permission of local authorities.  In 
early May, he travelled to Dong Nai province near HCMC to visit 
family.  He said that while transiting through HCMC, he visited 
the wife of imprisoned Mennonite Pastor Nguyen Hong Quang at their 
house church. 
 
5. (SBU) Ly's health is fair.  While appearing physically fit, 
recent x-rays of his chest revealed "spots" on both lungs.  His 
doctor suspects tuberculosis and has started Ly on an intensive 
year-long regimen to combat the disease. 
 
The Church on Ly 
---------------- 
 
6. (SBU) Prior to our meeting with Ly, we also met with the 
Associate Bishop of Hue, Le Van Hong, Father Duong Quynh, 
Chancellor of the Archdiocese and Father Le Van Thang, Secretary 
of the Archbishop's Office to review how Vietnam's new legal 
framework on religion is being implemented locally (septel). 
During our discussion, we also touched on Father Ly.  The three 
clearly were uncomfortable discussing Ly.  They said that Ly had 
not yet been assigned to a parish because he remains under 
administrative detention.  The issue remains to be worked out with 
provincial authorities.  We asked the three Church officials 
whether Ly had changed as a result of his incarceration; they said 
that they have known and worked with Ly for many years; "he is no 
different than before."  When pressed for additional detail and 
perspective, we were told, "you will see for yourself." 
 
Primary Focus is Political Change 
--------------------------------- 
 
7. (SBU) Ly was very thankful for continuing USG concern about his 
relatives.  Ly said he had no interest in leaving Vietnam; his 
role was to stay and fight for political change and 
democratization.  He was getting a new internet connection in his 
room within the month and hoped to be able to communicate directly 
with us and with others outside Vietnam shortly thereafter. 
 
8. (SBU) At the start of our meeting, Ly handed us a four-point 
agenda, neatly written in English.  With the exception of point 
one -- thanks to the USG for assisting his family -- Ly's focus 
was entirely on promoting religious freedom and ending of 
Communist Party rule in Vietnam.  Agenda item two was Vietnam's 
designation as a Country of Particular Concern (CPC).  Ly was very 
familiar with the recent USG agreement with Vietnam not to impose 
CPC sanctions.  He expressed skepticism that the GVN would follow 
through as pledged.  While he acknowledged some progress in 
implementing Vietnam's new legal framework on religion in urban 
areas, local officials' attitudes in rural areas remain highly 
problematic.  Religious Organizations such as the Mennonite 
Church, the Unified Buddhist Church of Vietnam and others also 
remain under intense GVN pressure.  Ly singled out for criticism 
the statement that the Archbishop of Hue made in August 2004 on 
religious freedom issues in Vietnam, telling us that the statement 
was not tough enough.  Ly said that he plans to try and visit 
Thich Quang Do, the General Secretary of the UBCV during a future 
visit to HCMC to demonstrate his solidarity with him and the UBCV. 
 
9. (SBU) Ly then turned to focus on items three and four of his 
agenda: bringing political change and democracy to Vietnam.  Ly 
said that the first objective of those who desired change was to 
"topple and depose" Ho Chi Minh.  He anticipated that the 
Communist Party would be able to hang on in Vietnam for another 
"10 to 15 years" and asked for USG support to help identify and 
cultivate a new generation of democratic leaders in Vietnam.  As 
our meeting ended, Ly pressed into our hands a 22-page, densely 
written, open letter that he penned in prison expressing his 
political and religious views.  He said that he had written it in 
a more neutral fashion in a hope that it would pass the scrutiny 
of prison censors, but ultimately he was prevented from handing 
the document to visiting family members.  (Copy of the document 
pouched to EAP/BCLTV.) 
 
10. (SBU) Comment:  Like Thich Quang Do, Ly is strong willed, well 
informed, opinionated, and energetic.  He is contemptuous of the 
Communist Party and appears to view some of his more compromise- 
oriented or gradualist colleagues in the Catholic Church with open 
frustration.  He firmly believes that Vietnam cannot have real 
religious freedom until there is fundamental political change.  He 
sees himself as being tasked to help bring about that change.  At 
least in this meeting, Ly was not interested in dialogue on 
issues, but was looking to us to provide a forum to the outside 
for his views. 
 
WINNICK 
 
 
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