US embassy cable - 05PARIS1139

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 04 PARIS 001139 
 
SIPDIS 
 
E.O. 12958: DECL: 02/03/2015 
TAGS: OVIP, PREL, KNNP, MARR, IZ, AF, FR 
SUBJECT: CODEL SMITH MEETS CHIRAC, FRENCH OFFICIALS, 
JANUARY 31, 2005 
 
 
Classified By: AMBASSADOR HOWARD LEACH, REASONS 1.4 B/D 
 
1. (C) Summary: During their January 31st stop in Paris, 
Senators Smith, Biden, Leahy, Chambliss, Shelby and Hatch 
discussed the status of the bilateral relationship, Iraq, 
Iran proliferation, Afghanistan, the EU's arms embargo on 
China, and anti-Semitism in France in separate meetings 
with French President Chirac, Interior Minister Dominque de 
Villepin, Defense Minister Michele Alliot-Marie, UMP Party 
President Nicholas Sarkozy, and a group of local Jewish 
leaders.  As explained by Chirac, France is looking forward 
to the President's visit to Europe as an opportunity to 
strengthen transatlantic ties.  France and the U.S. share 
common values and experiences, which argues for closer ties 
in order to deal with global problems and regional issues. 
The French confirmed their ongoing commitment to fighting 
terrorism, the common EU approach to dealing with Iran's 
nuclear acquisition program, as well as their willingness 
to help Iraqis and Afghans.  Chirac reiterated French 
redlines against sending personnel into Iraq, but noted the 
French offer to provide gendarme training outside Iraq for 
up to 1500 Iraqis.  The French are hopeful that recent 
middle-east developments will help facilitate a closer 
relationship between the Israelis and the Palestinians. 
Local Jewish community leaders acknowledged French 
Government efforts to combat anti-semitism, but said 
that France could do more.  UMP President Sarkozy took the 
opportunity to affirm his warm friendship towards the 
United States.  Senators Smith and Hatch extended an 
invitation to Sarkozy to attend a conference on civil 
society themes in Provo, Utah in October 2005  End summary. 
 
Bilateral Relations 
 
2. (C) Welcoming the Senators on January 31, Chirac said 
that U.S.-French relations were better than they were often 
portrayed in the press.  He was looking forward to his 
phone call with President Bush later that day; to welcoming 
Secretary Rice on February 8; and to his dinner with the 
 
SIPDIS 
President in Brussels on February 21.  He cited as areas of 
excellent relations the fight against terrorism, and 
efforts to combat drug trafficking and the proliferation of 
WMD.  Continuing, he said that France had no difficulty 
with the U.S. as evidenced by "perfect" cooperation in 
Afghanistan, the Balkans (particularly Kosovo), Haiti and 
Africa. 
 
3. (C) Responding to Senator Leahy's question on his 
objectives for his meeting with President Bush, Chirac 
joked that he might want to persuade the President on one 
issue or another, but that he was a realist.  The basic 
objective, he said, was to maintain and strengthen the 
considerable mutual regard and friendship.  While the U.S. 
and France would not agree on all subjects (and would say 
so), the basic issue was to create a climate of confidence 
and mutual consideration.  The twenty-first century, Chirac 
said, would see the world evolve into multiple poles of 
power.  Only two of those poles, he continued, shared the 
same origins and values.  While the U.S. and Europe would 
sometimes annoy each other, this shared experience, he 
said, made it essential, and more important than ever to 
strengthen transatlantic ties and in particular the ties 
between the U.S and France.  Thus, he concluded, his 
relationship with the President was essential and he hoped 
that there could be daily contact to manage crises and to 
psychologically reinforce the U.S./French relationship. 
 
Iraq 
 
4. (C) On Iraq, Chirac said that he was happy with the 
result of the elections.  France, he claimed, was not 
surprised to see that the elections had been positive, and 
well organized.  The elections, he said, marked a failure 
for terrorist groups and, while they did not solve all of 
Iraq's problems, they were encouraging for the future. 
Chirac also allowed that the elections were a victory for 
the U.S.  Responding to Senator Smith's query about French 
involvement as part of the internationalization of efforts 
to help Iraq, Chirac said that the elections would 
accelerate the process of Iraq's reintegration into the 
international community of democracies.  On 
internationalization, Chirac said that the UN should have 
its "necessary" role.  It was important to convince Iraq of 
the need to open political space to all groups who reject 
violence in order to broaden the base of the government. 
The Iraqi constitution should be as democratic as possible 
in order to avoid the establishment of an Islamic 
republic.  In this respect, the views of the Shiites, as 
reflected in a declaration made by Ayatollah Sistani were 
worrying.  Chirac said that Iraq was still at risk of a 
breakdown which could lead to civil war which could involve 
surrounding countries.  Iraq, he stressed, must remain 
united.  It was for this reason, Chirac said, that those 
drafting the constitution would have to be agile to create 
a broadly-based government which would ensure a united 
Iraq.  Chirac added that the Kurds had a desire for 
separatism which, if achieved, would cause problems for 
Turkey. 
 
5. (C) Senator Biden pressed Chirac on French assistance to 
Iraq, prompting the French President to declare "I have 
never refused anything except troops!"  France, he said, 
was willing to contribute in different ways.  He recounted 
how, at President Bush's request, France had canceled 
almost all of Iraq's debt and had urged Germany to the 
same.  "That decision cost us 4.5 billion dollars," he 
said.  Chirac agreed that it was essential for Iraq to have 
organized and effective security forces.  Then-CPA 
administrator Bremer's decision to disband the Iraqi 
military had been a mistake, he added.  He told the 
Senators that he had waited nine months for a reply from 
PM Allawi to his offer to train police and gendarmes. 
After following up several times, he had presented 
President al Yawer with a written proposal last month 
during Yawer's visit to Paris.  France, Chirac said, 
was still waiting for an answer from Iraq.  Chirac 
insisted that France was prepared to follow through on 
its offer to train 1,500 Iraqis, either in France or in 
Qatar.  Defense Minister Alliot-Marie related this same 
point to the Codel in her meeting, adding that solving 
the problem of stabilization in Iraq will depend on the 
capabilities of real leaders and a commitment by the 
Sunni leadership.  In the Codel's meeting with Interior 
Minister de Villepin, he called the successful elections 
in Iraq an important "step in the right direction, but 
cautioned that building on that success would require an 
empowerement of Iraqi people (implicitly bringing 
closer a U.S. withdrawal) and following up the elections in 
a way that gives people in the region the conviction that 
"with democratization also comes justice, specifically 
progress towards peace between Israelis and Palestinians." 
The senators emphasized that France's active participation 
in Iraq reconstruction, specifically by following through 
on its offer to train significant numbers of policemen, was 
key to putting U.S.-France relations back on track. 
Villepin added that an agreed timetable on next steps 
among Iraqis, the U.S. and Europe was essential for 
maintaining momentum against the violence, inertia, and 
fear of change that would otherwise return to dominate 
the region. 
 
Middle East 
 
6. (C) Senator Hatch suggested to Chirac that there was 
an impression of a lack of solidarity between the U.S. and 
France, particularly on Israel and Palestine.  Chirac 
responded that France favored "a return to the table." 
There was no disagreement with the U.S., he said, but 
France felt that the U.S. was not getting involved.  The 
Israeli/Palestinian conflict, he continued, had serious 
consequences and was used as a justification by 
fundamentalist groups in Asia and in France.  Chirac said 
he hoped that the U.S. was moving in the direction of 
engagement and that the broadening of the Israeli 
government and the change of Palestinian leadership 
created a more positive situation.  Both sides, he said, 
provoked each other, and only the U.S. could give 
definitive momentum to the peace process.  Chirac 
stressed the need for creation of a Palestinian state, 
saying that it was hard to ask the Palestinians to 
institute democracy without a state.  The U.S., he said, 
could offer simple security guarantees to move the 
process forward.  France and the EU, Chirac said, 
would support U.S. efforts. 
 
NATO/Afghanistan 
 
7. (C) Minister Alliot-Marie and the Codel highlighted 
successful areas of cooperation in the war against 
terrorism.  She noted that terrorism has been 
internationalized, further necessitating our cooperation in 
protecting our interests, such as maritime shipping lanes. 
Looking at the roots of terrorism, Alliot-Marie said we 
needed to help the poorest regions of the world in order 
remove their excuse for taking up terrorism.  Turning to 
Afghanistan, she cited the problem of drugs and how 
trafficking inhibits the country's stability.  She observed 
that the Karzai government in Afghanistan has a 
responsibility to reach out to the Afghan people in order 
to give them a sense of regained sovereignty, as well as to 
ensure the country's security.  Towards that end, the 
Germans are providing police training, while the U.S. and 
France are training the Afghan army.  In response to 
Senator Shelby's query for French views of NATO, 
Alliot-Marie observed that following the end of the Cold 
War NATO could have ceased to exist, however, it is now 
clear that it is essential for wider missions.  She 
reiterated France's support for NATO, citing French 
participation in NATO transformation efforts, especially 
through its contributions to the Reaction Force, as well 
as being the second largest contributor to NATO missions. 
Contrasting NATO with the European defense force (ESDP), 
Alliot-Marie explained that European forces (Battle-groups) 
could be activated within 15 days and deployed in places 
like Africa, where Europe has historical contacts.  NATO 
remains crucial, however, when larger forces are needed, 
she concluded. 
 
EU Arms Embargo on China 
 
8. (C) Chirac told Senator Smith that while France 
supported the lifting of the EU arms embargo on China, 
there was no question of France selling high-tech systems 
to China which could heighten tensions in the Taiwan 
straits.  Lifting the embargo, he claimed, would have no 
effect on exports -- it was not a commercial decision -- 
but was a purely political signal to end the useless 
humiliation of China which was unjustified and dangerous. 
Chirac said that U.S. exports to Taiwan were dangerous as 
they sent the signal to Taiwan that it could do anything, 
believing they would have the support of the 
U.S.  Taiwan, he said, should not be encouraged in this 
manner.  To do so showed a poor understanding of China 
and risked a dramatic Chinese military reaction. 
Asserting that the U.S. was "playing with fire," Chirac 
offered that there should be an embargo on arms sales to 
Taiwan.  In her meeting with the CODEL, Alliot-Marie 
repeated French arguments that the embargo is obsolete 
and not reflective of realities on the ground -- the 
China of today is different from that of 15 years ago. 
She noted that relations with China have changed and 
that the embargo only serves to send a signal 
of mistrust.  Alluding to the post-embargo period, 
Alliot-Marie stated that Europe has the means to regulate 
and control exports to China.  On the China-Taiwan 
relationship, she ventured that ties were too close for 
war to breakout between the two countries.  China would 
not risk its international relations by instigating a 
problem with Taiwan, while Taiwan would not risk its 
investments in China. 
 
Iran and nonproliferation 
 
9. (C) Responding to Senators Biden and Chambliss, Chirac 
said that France had no differences with the U.S. on Iran 
and was very careful in its discussions with the Iranians 
not to suggest any such difference.  Iranian nuclear 
proliferation, he said, was a serious issue.  Chirac 
described himself as "intuitively worried" about Iran, 
saying it was difficult to talk to Shiites, who had a 
different culture which led them to say what they did not 
think and think what they did not say.  Both France and the 
U.S., he said, shared the objective of preventing Iran from 
developing nuclear weapons.  The EU3 discussions with Iran, 
under the auspices of the IAEA continued in consultation 
with the U.S. in order to achieve an end to weapons 
programs in exchange for electro-nuclear power.  Chirac 
described UK PM Blair and German Chancellor Schroeder as 
optimistic, whereas he had less trust in the Iranians. 
Chirac suggested that with its ample oil and gas reserves, 
he was "not sure" that Iran's declared objective of 
obtaining energy from nuclear sources was credible.  After 
noting that Pakistan was a nuclear power, Chirac reiterated 
the need for the EU3 and the U.S. to work together on this 
issue and to include Russia, and even China in the 
discussions.  The Russians he said, had an interest in 
ensuring that Iran did not have nuclear weapons.  Chirac 
said that he had always been against the use of sanctions, 
and that France very rarely participated in sanctions 
regimes.  He affirmed, however, that France had no 
objection to referring Iran to the UNSC if there was the 
slightest doubt about Iran's commitment not to develop 
nuclear weapons.  Villepin, for his part, said that Iran 
"can be convinced" to forego nuclear weapons, but cautioned 
that unilateral U.S. pressure against Iran would not 
succeed because "the Iranians are a proud, tough people who 
are not afraid."  He also echoed Chirac's view that strong 
European and Russian participation was necessary for 
success. 
 
Anti-Semitism and France 
10. (C) CODEL Smith met with representatives of the French 
Jewish community to discuss the issue of anti-Semitism in 
France.  Minister for Victim's Rights Nicole Guedj noted 
that the GOF acknowledges the problem and has taken 
exemplary measures to address it.  Both Guedj and 
former-Minister of European Affairs Noelle Lenoir stressed 
that France was not the only country with problematic 
anti-Semitism issues, and that European countries needed 
to work together to reach a common solution.  Roger 
Cukierman, head of CRIF, the umbrella organization 
representing all Jewish communal institutions in France, 
stated that France was schizophrenic on anti-Semitism; 
their internal policy is commendable, but is undermined 
by their pro-Arab foreign policy.  Cukierman cited the 
(ultimately successful) back-and-forth efforts to ban 
Hizbollah-backed al-Manar television from being broadcast 
in France as an example of foreign policy exerting 
influence on domestic policy.  Senator Biden spoke 
forcefully on the issue, stating that "I don't believe 
the government (of France) is doing all it can do." 
 
Meeting with Nicolas Sarkozy 
 
11.  (C) Former Interior Minister Finance Minister -- and a 
leading candidate for the 2007 presidential race -- Nicolas 
Sarkozy received the Congressional Delegation in his 
capacity as president of the regional council of 
Hauts-de-Seine, in Paris'western suburbs.  Sarkozy stressed 
his admiration and friendship for the U.S.  He said he was 
known as "the most pro-American politician in France" 
and that -- since he had been elected head of France's 
largest political by over 80 percent of the party 
members-- "it's clear I'm not the only French person who 
loves the United States."  Sarkozy lived up to his 
reputation for directness and openly acknowledged ambition 
by telling the Senators that "it  would still be two years 
before he could translate his words of friendship for the 
U.S. into action." Senators Smith and Hatch extended an 
invitation to Sarkozy to attend a conference on civil 
society themes in Provo, Utah in October 2005 sponsored by 
Brigham Young University, and Sarkozy made clear that 
he would make every effort to accept. 
 
12. (U) This cable has been cleared by Codel. 
 
13. (U) Kabul and Baghdad minimize considered. 
 
Leach