US embassy cable - 05BUENOSAIRES138

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 03 BUENOS AIRES 000138 
 
SIPDIS 
 
SENSITIVE 
 
WHA FOR A/S ROGER NORIEGA, PDAS DERHAM, WHA/BSC 
NSC FOR TOM SHANNON 
USCINCSO FOR POLAD 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: PREL, PGOV, OVIP, AR, CODEL 
SUBJECT: CODEL DODD MEETS WITH PRESIDENT KIRCHNER 
 
REF: SECSTATE 10956 
 
1.  (SBU) Summary:  President Kirchner told Codel Dodd that 
Argentina appreciated President Bush,s and the U.S.,s help 
and understanding the past few months.  Kirchner reiterated 
his support for President Mesa and Bolivian democracy.  He 
counseled engaging with Chavez rather than isolating him. 
Kirchner reaffirmed Argentina,s desire to integrate itself 
in the world economy and said U.S. capital had open doors in 
Argentina.  The Codel praised Kirchner for Argentina,s 
economic recovery and thanked him for the GOA,s cooperation 
on the War on Terrorism and its decision to deploy troops in 
Haiti.  The meeting was cordial and productive.  End Summary. 
 
2.  (SBU) On January 13, Senators Christopher Dodd (D-Conn), 
Bill Nelson (D-Fla) and Lincoln Chafee (R-RI), accompanied by 
Ambassador Lino Gutierrez, called on President Nestor 
Kirchner at the Casa Rosada.  GoA Minister of the Presidency 
Alberto Fernandez, GoA Consul General in New York Hector 
Timerman, and local businessman Julio Werthein also sat in. 
 
----------- 
The Economy 
----------- 
 
3.  (SBU) After initial pleasantries were exchanged, Senator 
Dodd congratulated President Kirchner for his handling of the 
Argentine economy.  Dodd said it was almost incredible how 
the Argentine economy had bounced back after the 2001-2002 
crisis.  Kirchner said the whole crisis had been incredible 
and extremely painful for Argentina.  Had Argentina followed 
IMF prescriptions after the default, "we would have 
uncontrolled social problems," he affirmed.  Instead, 
Argentina opted for a "gradual" policy that has achieved 
results.  IMF policies have to be revisited "there has to be 
comprehension."  "We are still in hell, but we are gradually 
getting out," he added. 
 
4.  (SBU) Expressing optimism for the future, Kirchner 
explained:  "Argentina is potentially a powerful country ... 
we are not a Peru.  In ten years, we will be an important 
reference point in the region."  Kirchner stressed that 
Argentina now had a fiscal surplus, and its well-targeted 
social policies had avoided a social explosion.  Tax 
collections have increased as well.  As to the more than 
forty percent of Argentines who are below the poverty line, 
Kirchner noted that Argentina measures poverty rates 
differently than others.  "A poor Argentine would be lower 
middle class in Brazil or Chile." 
 
5.  (SBU) Important challenges remain.  Kirchner mentioned 
controlling inflation as a priority.  The energy problem has 
to be dealt with.  There has to be more investment and 
training for the work force.  Of course, the debt issue looms 
large.  "Yesterday we launched our debt offer," he observed, 
and said that the offer was "the best that Argentina can do" 
at this time. 
 
6.  (SBU) Kirchner predicted that Argentina would earn the 
world,s confidence and become a "predictable" nation in 
time.  "We want to integrate ourselves to the world," he 
assured.  "We want to be a serious country."  Kirchner 
thanked the United States and President Bush for their 
support for Argentina during difficult moments.  He said U.S. 
capital was welcome in Argentina.  "We have never had a 
strange (i.e., corrupt) proposal from a U.S. company," he 
boasted.  "As I told the president of General Electric 
yesterday, we mean to fight corruption in Argentina, and U.S. 
companies have open doors," he stressed. 
 
--------- 
Terrorism 
--------- 
 
7.  (SBU) Senator Dodd also thanked Kirchner for his 
country,s cooperation in the fight against international 
terrorism.  He related that the Codel had visited Iguazu and 
had received briefings from Argentine law enforcement 
authorities.  Kirchner said Argentina is "overwhelmed" 
because of the length of its borders.  "We need radars ... 
Paraguay is a problem," he said, although President Duarte is 
an improvement over his predecessors.  Smuggling is a way of 
life in that area.  Senator Dodd said that the Codel had been 
able to observe how 6000 people cross the Friendship Bridge 
each day in Ciudad del Este. 
 
8.  (SBU) Senator Chafee expressed his condolences over the 
recent loss of life in the Buenos Aires nightclub fire.  He 
said that there had been a similar tragedy in Rhode Island, 
and that his state would be glad to share its experiences 
with Argentina (We have provided government of the City of 
Buenos Aires a copy of  Rhode Island,s legislative measures 
after its fire).  Senator Chafee praised President Kirchner 
for maintaining a budget surplus, noting that the U.S. 
currently had a budget deficit.  Kirchner bragged that he had 
always had a budget surplus during his 12 years as Governor 
of Santa Cruz.  "Deficits are dangerous," he agreed. 
 
------------------------ 
Latin America: Haiti ... 
------------------------ 
 
9.  (SBU) Senator Dodd commented that if there is one thing 
that Fidel Castro and Milton Friedman have in common, it is 
their negative opinion of the IMF.  Turning to the situation 
in the region, Senator Dodd and Senator Nelson praised 
Argentina,s decision to send troops to Haiti.  Kirchner said 
Argentina wanted to avoid "total chaos" in that country. 
 
10.  (SBU) Kirchner opined that the situation in Latin 
America had improved somewhat.  He said he hoped that when 
the Summit of the Americas takes place in Mar del Plata next 
November, the U.S.-Latin American relationship would be at 
another (i.e., higher) level.  Kirchner said he would be 
receiving Uruguayan president-elect Vazquez later that day. 
He expressed his confidence that Vazquez would provide 
"continuity" to Uruguay. 
 
--------------- 
... Bolivia ... 
--------------- 
 
11.  (SBU) President Kirchner told the senators that the GoA 
had been helpful to President Mesa of Bolivia.  Mesa, 
Kirchner ventured, is a very good president -- Bolivia cannot 
hope for a better one.  He has numerous problems, including 
an "archaic left" and a "confrontational right," and he needs 
support.  Argentina is helping by buying gas.  President Lula 
of Brazil is also helping.  Bolivian stability is important 
to the region, Kirchner emphasized.  (Comment:  Thus 
President Kirchner has come a long way from his initial trip 
to Bolivia shortly after his election in 2003, when he met 
with Evo Morales and "did not have time" to meet with Mesa. 
End Comment.) 
 
----------------- 
... and Venezuela 
----------------- 
 
12.  (SBU) On Venezuela, Senators Dodd and Nelson noted that 
they had just traveled to Caracas and had a meeting with 
President Chavez.  Senator Nelson said that Chavez had said 
that he wanted a "new beginning" with the United States. 
Should the United States believe him?  President Kirchner 
said that all countries have to work together to "integrate" 
Chavez into the Hemisphere.  It is better to work with him 
than to exclude him.  After all is said and done, Chavez 
listens.  Kirchner is convinced that Chavez is less dangerous 
than is believed. 
 
13.  (SBU) The reality is that Chavez is the elected 
president of the Venezuelans, Kirchner continued.  Chavez is 
neither a communist nor a socialist -- he (Venezuela) has 
important investments in the U.S.  Better to have Chavez in 
MERCOSUR and talking to the U.S. and the EU than left out. 
Kirchner said Chavez "treats Argentine businessmen better 
than he treats us (the GoA)."  Kirchner admitted that Chavez 
often tries Kirchner,s patience.  "He talks too much!" 
(Comment:  Sources close to Kirchner have told us that the 
Argentine President was livid when he shared a stage with 
Chavez during the latter,s last trip to Argentina and Chavez 
launched a 45-minute diatribe against the U.S.  Kirchner 
reportedly said that he would never let that happen again. 
End Comment.)  Kirchner believes that he and Lula can help 
democracy in Venezuela.  He reminded that he had met with the 
Venezuelan opposition a number of times, including in his 
last trip to Caracas. 
 
14.  (SBU) As to the Venezuelan opposition, they need to 
analyze why they did not win the referendum and have to 
present an alternative, Kirchner counseled.  "People 
sometimes choose the lesser evil," he said.  "If the U.S. 
acts with intelligence, Chavez will be neutralized," Kirchner 
asserted.  Senator Dodd said that President Uribe of Colombia 
shared that view.  Kirchner ended the Venezuela discussion by 
reiterating that, "As I told President Bush, we will 
collaborate with the U.S. to improve the situation in 
Venezuela." 
 
-------------- 
Final Comments 
-------------- 
 
15.  (SBU) Consul Timerman noted that the U.S. Congress had 
been helpful for many years during the Argentine military 
dictatorships.  He said Argentina wanted to attract more U.S. 
investment.  Senator Dodd said it is important to continue to 
have a good dialogue with the U.S. through the Embassy and 
the Executive and Legislative Branches.  He congratulated 
President Kirchner on emphasizing human rights and pursuing 
those guilty of the "Dirty War."  "It is important for the 
young to understand what happened," he said. 
 
16.  (SBU) President Kirchner agreed that understanding the 
past is important and stressed that Argentina is indeed 
trying to do just that, but warned that it is a long process. 
 Kirchner thanked the senators for their visit.  He repeated 
his oft-stated description of Argentina "trying to get out of 
hell -- maybe we,re close to purgatory."  He said Argentina 
"treasures the U.S.,s understanding" of his country.  He 
ended the meeting by saying he hoped to see the senators in 
Buenos Aires, Washington, or "in my favorite city:  New 
York."  (COMMENT:  The meeting was extremely cordial. 
President Kirchner was relaxed and at ease with the Codel.) 
 
17.  (SBU) Codel Dodd did not have the opportunity to clear 
this message prior to its departure. 
GUTIERREZ