US embassy cable - 04THEHAGUE2642

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 05 THE HAGUE 002642 
 
SIPDIS 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: PTER, PREL, ATRN, KCRM, NL, EUN 
SUBJECT: ATTORNEY GENERAL PRAISES US-EU EFFORTS TO FIGHT 
COUNTERTERRORISM AT JHA INFORMAL COUNCIL IN THE HAGUE ON 
SEPT. 30 
 
REF: (A) The Hague 2507  (B) The Hague 2445 
 
THIS CABLE CONTAINS SENSITIVE BUT UNCLASSIFIED INFORMATION. 
PLEASE HANDLE ACCORDINGLY. 
 
1. (U) SUMMARY: In a JHA Troika meeting and a meeting on the 
margins of the JHA Informal Council, AG Ashcroft and DHS U/S 
Hutchinson praised EU cooperation with the U.S. in fighting 
terrorism.  These meetings built on the September 18 EU 
Troika meeting attended by DHS Sec. Ridge (Reftel B) and 
reflected the EU's effort to include the AG and DHS 
Secretary in JHA processes.  The AG urged greater 
 
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information sharing to ensure the freedom and security of US 
and EU citizens.  The U.S. and EU agreed to group 
information in three categories - police/judicial, 
intelligence and borders security - allowing it to be shared 
and protected differently.  The AG announced the assignment 
of an FBI Agent to Europol for joint cooperation on 
counterterrorism.  [Note: Sec. Ridge had announced the 
assignment of a Secret Service Agent to assist with 
counterfeiting cooperation.]  EU President Dutch Justice 
Minister Donner pledged to institutionalize annual US-EU JHA 
Ministerial meetings, stating that EU Ministers would invite 
both the DHS Secretary and AG to future JHA sessions.  The 
U.S. and EU also agreed to use Eurojust as a forum for 
sharing best practices/lessons learned in fighting 
terrorism.  During his two-day trip, the AG signed bilateral 
protocols with the Dutch and French implementing the US-EU 
Mutual Legal Assistance and Extradition Agreements (MLA&E). 
END SUMMARY. 
 
JHA TROIKA MEETING 
------------------ 
 
2. (U) The AG and DHS Under Secretary Hutchinson visited The 
Hague Sept. 28-30 to address the Justice, Home, Interior and 
Immigration Ministers of the EU Member States on the margins 
of the Sept. 30 EU JHA Informal Council.  The AG and U/S had 
an informal working dinner Sept. 29 with the EU JHA Troika 
(NL Justice Minister Donner, LUX Justice Minister Frieden, 
JHA EU Commissioner Vitorino) to focus on CT law enforcement 
efforts.  Donner reviewed the Sept. 18 Troika discussions 
with DHS Sec. Ridge (Reftel B) and proposed using the Sept. 
30 address to send the message that fighting terrorism was a 
"common project."  The U.S. and EU agreed to focus on 
advancing issues both sides agree on and de-emphasized areas 
of controversy, re-casting them as pursuits towards a common 
purpose.  The AG thanked the JHA Troika for their 
willingness to give the U.S. a chance to be heard in their 
discussions and expressed appreciation for EU CT cooperation 
since 9/11.  The agenda included a discussion of information 
sharing, prevention of terrorism, US cooperation with 
Europol and Eurojust, and a brief discussion of the Hague 
Securities Convention. 
 
3. (U) On the topic of information sharing, Donner proposed 
dividing the problem of information sharing into three 
general categories: criminal/judicial, CT intelligence and 
border and transportation security since each has its own 
particular issues.  U/S Hutchinson and Commissioner Vitorino 
both agreed differentiating between different types of 
information was useful.  The U/S stated, for example, border 
security information sharing, especially the sharing of 
passport information and biometric data, should comprise a 
separate category with different processes and requirements 
for the exchange and use of information.  The AG agreed with 
Donner to continue discussions to improve sharing of 
criminal/judicial information in the established JHA 
dialogue.  On the issue of intelligence sharing, the AG 
stated it would be useful to have experts, in particular 
magistrates and prosecutors, convene for discussions under 
the auspices of Eurojust.  As to border and transportation 
security, the AG agreed with the U/S it would be appropriate 
to channel those discussions into the Policy Dialogue on 
Border and Transport Security (PDBTS).  The AG stressed that 
while such classification provided a useful analytical 
framework, he warned against "stovepiping" and the creation 
of bureaucratic obstacles to information sharing.  He argued 
any framework should serve to remove obstacles, not set in 
place new ones.  Frieden commented that while the need to 
share and exploit border and transportation security 
information existed, unnecessary access to it must be 
strictly controlled.  He suggested a step-by-step approach, 
whereby parties could set up a timetable and roadmap for 
greater information sharing.  The AG also announced the 
creation of an FBI liaison to Europol as means by which to 
enhance information sharing. 
 
4. (U) Vitorino called for greater dialogue on future 
initiatives changing collection and use of information.  He 
noted the U.S. had led the way in seeking additional 
information, like with PNR and biometrics, and Europe 
usually followed suit, since the EU shared the same CT 
concerns as the U.S.  He stressed, however, that it was 
easier to EUR to act in concert with U.S. information 
requests when it was seen as a true partnership - and not as 
Europe following U.S. dictates.  Advance notice of new 
initiatives on information sharing allowed policies to be 
debated and developed on both sides of the Atlantic.  He 
cited the PNR initiative as catching Europe off-guard and 
asked for prior consultation on how the U.S. would address 
the September 11 Commission recommendations so Europe could 
prepare for any new changes.  EU CT Coordinator De Vries 
echoed his comments. 
 
5. (U) Under "prevention of terrorism," Vitorino admitted 
freezing assets within the EU was cumbersome as it required 
consent of all 25 Member States.  The EU Commissioner said 
the EU needed a legal framework to improve the exchange of 
information and registration of bank accounts, and a means 
by which to secure the cooperation of financial 
institutions.  Donner proposed a meeting of experts 
organized through Eurojust to address signs and signals of 
terrorism - this meeting would review existing completed 
cases to "tease out" facts helpful in understanding the 
terrorists.  A separate expert group would profile of those 
most susceptible to recruitment for Jihad.  There was also a 
need for an expert group to organize the joint forensic 
examination of frozen assets.  The AG agreed such expert 
meetings were needed.  USEU DoJ Senior Counselor Richard 
highlighted ongoing projects in Europol and Eurojust. 
 
6. (U) The U.S. and EU agreed to work to improve cooperation 
between US law enforcement agencies and Europol.  Richard 
suggested using Eurojust as a forum for expert group 
meetings on developing intelligence and sharing experiences. 
De Vries agreed that using Europol and Eurojust as 
frameworks for upgrading contacts between U.S. law 
enforcement would be excellent. 
 
7. (U) In a final comment, Vitorino broached the subject of 
the Hague Securities Convention, suggesting it could be 
adopted by the end of the year.  The AG responded that while 
the US foresees no obstacles to the progress of the 
convention, it was being vetted through the interagency 
process. 
 
MEETING WITH EU MEMBER STATES MINISTERS ON THE MARGIN OF THE 
JHA INFORMAL 
--------------------------------------------- ----------- 
 
8. (U) At the Sept. 30 meeting of the EU Member State JHA 
ministers, Donner re-iterated his theme from the previous 
night - that the U.S. and EU had a "common interest to 
improve common capacity" to fight terrorism and both have 
common objectives to keep Europe safe.  He announced the 
results of the Troika meetings with AG Ashcroft and Sec. 
Ridge: agreement to group information in three categories - 
police/judicial, intelligence and borders security; 
assignment of FBI and Secret Service agents to Europol; 
agreement to use Eurojust as a forum for CT "lessons 
learned" and meetings of CT experts; expansion of the role 
of both Eurojust and Europol to deal with terrorist 
financing; and the status of the Hague Convention on 
Securities.  Donner also raised the issue of VWP access for 
new Member States.  Donner noted the Netherlands had just 
signed its bilateral protocols implementing the US-EU Mutual 
Legal Assistance and Extradition Agreements and urged other 
Member States to complete the process as quickly as 
possible.  Vitorino stressed the same point. 
 
9. (U) The AG expressed appreciation to his EU counterparts 
for their CT efforts and for meeting the challenges posed 
after 9/11.  He stated democratic nations must protect the 
laws and liberties of people.  He also called for increased 
efforts to establish durable transatlantic ties and for 
improved law enforcement and CT efforts to protect people 
against crime and terrorism: "We have a common and ruthless 
enemy."  He announced that an experienced FBI agent would be 
posted in The Hague to work with Europol and looked forward 
for the opportunity to work with Eurojust on information 
sharing.  In closing, the AG highlighted corruption as a 
major force contributing to terrorist recruitment. 
 
10. (U) U/S Hutchinson told the ministers the U.S. was 
creating principles and guidelines to limit problems on 
border security issues.  He said the U.S. was anxious to 
share best practices with the EU on transportation security 
and he welcomed a dialogue on the Visa Waiver Program with 
Member States.  Speaking on the first day travelers from VWP 
countries were being enrolled in US VISIT, he stressed the 
importance of the program in establishing identity.  In 
reference to the upcoming VWP deadline for machine readable 
passports, he pledged the U.S. would not turn people away 
the first time solely for not carrying the proper machine 
readable passport. 
 
FRENCH, GERMAN, POLISH AND ROMANIAN MEETINGS 
-------------------------------------------- 
 
11. (U) The AG also met with French Justice Minister Perben, 
and they signed the U.S.-French protocols to the US-EU MLA&E 
Agreements.  The AG thanked Perben for French 
counterterrorism assistance and discussed the Moussaoui 
case.  The AG agreed to look into the status of the 
remaining three French nationals at Guantanamo.  AG Ashcroft 
also met with German Interior Minister Schily and discussed 
the Motassadeq case.  In the meeting with The AG's 
discussions with Polish Interior Minister Kalisz and Deputy 
Justice Minister Krolak, the AG addressed law enforcement 
issues, including organized crime and Poland's inability to 
extradite nationals.  The Polish ministers raised several 
mutual legal assistance and prisoner transfer matters, but 
focused particularly on the visa waiver issue, noting Poland 
was a strong ally in Iraq.  They also expressed concern over 
Chechens seeking asylum.  The AG met with Romanian 
Administration and Interior Minister Saniuta and Justice 
Minister Diaconescu and discussed Romania's anti-corruption 
efforts and the SECI center.  The AG praised Romania's new 
willingness to extradite nationals, suggesting that might 
pave the way for a modernized extradition treaty. 
OTHER MEETINGS FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL 
--------------------------------------- 
 
12. (U) Following the Sept. 29 signing of the US-Dutch 
bilateral protocol to the US-EU Mutual Legal Assistance and 
Extradition Agreements (Reftel A), the AG met with Donner 
and senior Justice Ministry officials to discuss bilateral 
law enforcement efforts.  The AG praised new Dutch CT 
legislation and proposals, especially those aimed at 
preventing terrorist acts.  He also applauded Dutch efforts 
to fight Ecstasy, but urged the Dutch to consider all 
organized crime (and CT) as having a US nexus and to share 
information on drug traffickers accordingly.  Donner 
responded with examples of greater Dutch information 
sharing, stating the Netherlands was concluding the first 
European agreement with the DEA to join EPIC, and Dutch 
barriers to the sharing of information on drug traffic 
through third countries were being abolished.  [Note: DEA 
Administrator Karen Tandy signed this agreement with the 
Dutch October 8.]  The Justice Minister agreed in principle 
to the US request for access to the "blacklist" - a list of 
passengers from the Netherlands Antilles caught trafficking 
drugs through Schiphol.  He said, however, the U.S. must 
explain precisely the intended recipients of the information 
and how the information would be used in order to satisfy 
his data protection concerns.  The AG agreed to work with 
the Justice Minister to satisfy his data protection 
objectives. 
 
13. (U) The AG praised the Dutch attitude toward 
extraditions as "constructive."  Donner asked about the 
remarks on Dutch extradition contained in the President's 
Majors List transmittal letter and received assurances these 
comments reflected only a small number of specific cases but 
did not reflect the broader relationship.  Donner briefly 
touched on asset seizure, stating the Dutch would like to 
move in the direction of the Camden Asset Recovery 
Interagency Network (CARIN) network discussed last week in 
The Hague. 
 
14. (U) The AG also met with senior Dutch CT officials on 
Sept. 29 and with senior Dutch prosecutors on Sept. 30, 
stressing the themes of positive cooperation and partnership 
with the Dutch on CT and law enforcement, as well as the 
need to continue the fight against crime and terrorism. 
 
15. (SBU) AG Ashcroft met with International Criminal 
Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) President Ted 
Meron and Chief Prosecutor Del Ponte in separate courtesy 
calls during his visit.  Meron reviewed the structure of the 
Court, highlighting the distinction between its ad hoc 
Security Council-derived nature and that of the 
International Criminal Court (ICC).  Meron also underscored 
his efforts to guide the Tribunal towards a successful 
completion of its mandate.  Del Ponte expressed frustration 
at the number of outstanding fugitives, noting that U.S. led 
forces had been able to apprehend Saddam Hussein and she 
didn't know "why it was so difficult to get Karadzic and 
Mladic."  The AG reassured Del Ponte of the U.S. commitment 
to seeing such fugitives apprehended and explained that 
other major terrorist fugitives, despite the best efforts of 
the United States, remained outstanding.  Deputy Prosecutor 
David Tolbert described the ICTY Prosecutor's support of war 
crimes-related investigations and prosecutions being 
conducted by AUSA's in Boston, Phoenix and North Carolina. 
The AG thanked Del Ponte for her support these efforts and 
conveyed DOJ's willingness to provide any assistance needed 
in the Tribunal's investigation and prosecution of war 
crimes. 
 
16. (U) AG Ashcroft, with Assistant AG Hewitt Pate, had a 30- 
minute introductory meeting with newly appointed European 
Commissioner for Competition Policy Neelie Kroes.  The AG 
noted how pleased he had been when he had first heard of 
Mrs. Kroes's appointment in light of her extensive business 
experience and how that could inform her decision-making. 
He complimented Mrs. Kroes on her performance at the 
European Parliament the day before, when she had defended 
herself against allegations her business background would 
bias her decisions; Mrs. Kroes had said that, like a soccer 
referee, her knowledge of the business world would make her 
a more informed, though nonetheless impartial, arbiter of 
the issues before her.  Both the Attorney General and Mrs. 
Kroes stressed the need for a vigorous pro-competitive 
policy as an essential factor for achieving economic 
progress, with the AG saying those who sought protection 
from competition were in reality trying to protect 
themselves from the future.  Mrs. Kroes promised to continue 
the cooperation and open communication with the Justice 
Department that had been practiced by her predecessor, Mario 
Monti. 
 
U/S HUTCHINSON'S PROGRAM 
------------------------ 
 
17. (U) In addition to his participation in EU meetings with 
the Attorney General, the U/S held bilateral meetings with 
Dutch border and transportation security officials and 
European private sector stakeholders.  On September 29, he 
received a briefing from Port of Rotterdam officials on how 
they have been able to comply with international, EU and 
national shipping security requirements.  The Port officials 
explained how they use a web-based port security "wizard" to 
aid its 142 constituent terminals in achieving ISPS code. 
The U/S and his staff also observed the real-time, high tech 
port traffic control center.  The following day, the U/S 
held discussions with Schiphol Airport customs, immigration 
and security officers and met with the ISI team. 
Discussions highlighted the successes of ISI, a program 
supported by the airlines, Dutch Immigration Services, and 
Royal Marechaussee.  The U/S also viewed a demonstration of 
the airport's iris-scan based Privium trusted flier program. 
 
18. (U) The Under Secretary also met with Dutch Justice and 
Interior Ministries officials, including Tjibbe Joustra, the 
newly appointed counter-terrorism coordinator, and discussed 
Joustra's plan to restructure Dutch CT efforts. The U/S 
invited Joustra to visit the US.  He also visited the 
National Coordination Center, a 24/7 operations center for 
handling crisis situations.  Finally, the U/S met with 
executives from European companies and the Ministry of 
Transportation to consult on new border and transportation 
security technologies under development. 
 
PRESS 
----- 
 
19. (U) Press covered the two bilateral protocol signings 
and the JHA press conference.  About 100 members of the 
media attended the press conference at which Attorney 
General Ashcroft explained the challenges the U.S. and the 
EU had faced since 9/11 and 3/11 and expressed his 
appreciation for the cooperation the U.S. had experienced 
with the EU.  He spoke of the goal of every government to 
protect its people against crime and terrorism.  The AG 
referred to a common and ruthless enemy and cited the steps 
the U.S. and the EU were taking together against this enemy. 
Coverage from these events resulted in over 52 stories 
worldwide, emphasizing the AG's comments about working 
multilaterally against a common enemy, reinforcing the story 
that terrorism is not just an American issue. [Note: This 
followed similar coverage of Secretary Ridge's visit, which 
resulted in over 82 stories worldwide.] 
 
COMMENT 
------- 
20. (U) The visits by the AG and DHS Secretary and U/S - all 
covered extensively in the press - highlighted US-EU aims to 
establish additional forums for future cooperation.  The two 
sides emphasized commonalities - a theme carried by both 
Secretary Ridge and the AG.  Post is encouraged by the 
 
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progress made during the successive US-EU Troika meetings, 
and looks forward to the follow-through pledged by Frieden 
and the British to ensure the US voice is heard during 
future JHA Ministerial discussions. 
 
21. (U) This cable has been cleared in draft by DOJ and DHS. 
 
SOBEL