US embassy cable - 04HANOI1604

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 03 HANOI 001604 
 
SIPDIS 
 
SENSITIVE 
 
STATE FOR EAP/BCLTV AND DRL 
 
BEIJING FOR AMBASSADOR-DESIGNATE MARINE 
 
GENEVA AND BANGKOK FOR REFCOORD 
 
E.O. 12958:  N/A 
TAGS: PREL, PREF, PHUM, IZ, VM, CTERR, ETMIN, HUMANR, RELFREE 
SUBJECT:  REVIEWING HUMAN RIGHTS WITH DPM DUNG 
 
REF:  A.  STATE  106483   B.  HANOI 248 
 
1.  (SBU)  Summary.  In a meeting with Deputy Prime Minister 
Dung on June 3, Ambassador urged Vietnam to take steps on 
human rights and religious freedom, inter alia, that would 
create a good environment for high level visits from 
Vietnam.  Dung acknowledged problems in implementation of 
"clear" GVN policies on ethnic minorities and religion, 
which the GVN was trying to resolve.  He denied political 
prisoners but offered to "consider" reduction of sentences 
for those who made "progress."  He confirmed GVN "respect" 
for Protestants but warned against using religion for 
separatist or terrorist goals.  He offered to work with the 
U.S. on a voluntary departure program for Montagnards. 
Ambassador called for any solid evidence of involvement by 
US-based individuals or organizations in violent acts, but 
urged a clear differentiation between peaceful activities 
and terrorism, as well as between ethnic minority 
Protestants in general and Dega separatists.  DPM Dung 
acknowledged that the USG did not support a Dega state or 
separatism but noted "many" people believe so.  He 
criticized US actions in Iraq as an "illegal invasion" and a 
"war of aggression" but nonetheless urged both governments 
move forward toward further improvements in bilateral ties. 
End Summary. 
 
2.  (U)  In advance of the Ambassador's departure for the 
U.S. to participate in the speaking tour sponsored by the 
U.S.-ASEAN Business Council and of the likely visit to the 
U.S. in July by Communist Party of Vietnam Politburo member 
Phan Dien, Ambassador met for two hours with Deputy Prime 
Minister and Politburo member Nguyen Tan Dung on June 3. 
(Ref b reported on their last meeting to review bilateral 
relations.)  Pol/C and Commercial Attache accompanied. 
Assistant Foreign Minister Nguyen Duc Hung also attended. 
Septel will report on commercial and economic issues 
discussed. 
 
Creating the right environment 
------------------------------ 
 
3.  (SBU)  The Ambassador explained to DPM Dung that we had 
already provided the MFA with some suggestions (ref a) of 
steps the GVN could take to create a positive environment 
for a visit by the Prime Minister in 2005, as well as for 
Phan Dien's visit in July.  He highlighted the importance of 
releases of prisoners who have done nothing more than 
peacefully express their personal opinions; the need for a 
public statement banning efforts at forced renunciations of 
faith and a speedier effort to reopen and/or register 
Protestant churches in the Central Highlands; and, a 
willingness by the GVN to allow NGOs (with possible USG 
funding) to help address developmental problems in the 
Central Highlands, in an effort to help ethnic minorities 
believe that remaining was better than fleeing. 
 
4.  (SBU)  DPM Dung noted GVN hopes for a successful visit 
to the U.S. by the Prime Minister.  (Note:  he did not, 
however, comment on Phan Dien's upcoming trip.  end note) 
He reminded Ambassador of their earlier "frank" discussions 
on human rights issues and reiterated Vietnam's concern for 
promotion and better protection of human rights.  He 
stressed, however, that different countries and cultures 
have different perceptions and laws related to human rights. 
He admitted human rights problems in Vietnam, including 
weaknesses in the implementation of policy on ethnic 
minorities and a growing gap between the economic well-being 
of the ethnic Kinh majority and the minorities, but promised 
the GVN's determination to resolve such problems.  He 
similarly highlighted the "clear" GVN policy protecting 
freedom of religion as well as freedom of non-belief, but 
admitted that "implementation at the local level has not yet 
been handled well."  He cited improvements in reducing 
poverty as human rights achievements recognized by the World 
Bank, UNDP, and ADB. 
 
Status of Protestants 
--------------------- 
 
5.  (SBU)  DPM Dung specifically noted that the GVN 
"respects" the Protestant faith and is willing to register 
new churches and permit "normal" activities.  He warned, 
however, that the GVN would "never" permit activities "under 
the guise of religion" in support of a separate Dega state 
or using terrorist tactics.  He claimed that 25 new 
churches, with 28,000 Protestants, had been registered in 
2003 alone.  He commented that Catholics in the Central 
Highlands were able to operate "very well" and promised that 
the GVN would "create favorable conditions" for the 
Protestant Church in the Central Highlands -- but not for 
Fulro or the Dega movement.  While he acknowledged 
statements by the Ambassador and USG that the USG did not 
support a separate Dega state, he complained that Fulro, the 
Montagnard Foundation, and Kok Ksor continued to "agitate" 
from within the U.S. as "terrorist organizations," which the 
USG should not permit.  Furthermore, he stated, the USG 
should not "support" illegal migration of Montagnards to 
Cambodia, which causes instability in both Vietnam and 
Cambodia.  He promised that, if Montagnards wished to go to 
the U.S., "we agree and are ready" for the MFA to work with 
the USG on some sort of a "voluntary departure program." 
 
6.  (SBU)  DPM Dung denied any political prisoners in 
Vietnam, noting that people were detained according to the 
laws of Vietnam.  He emphasized that the GVN had already 
reduced the sentence of Father Nguyen Van Ly once he 
demonstrated contrition and asked for clemency.  DPM Dung 
said that the GVN would be willing to consider similar 
treatment of Nguyen Dan Que and Nguyen Si Binh (sic).  The 
GVN was prepared to be "tolerant" of prisoners who made 
"progress," he added.  He called for dialogue and exchanges 
on human rights and other issues on a "frank and 
constructive" basis.  He expressed the GVN's readiness to 
welcome A/S Craner for talks on human rights later in June. 
 
7.  (SBU)  Ambassador noted that definitions of human rights 
were not subjective but rather codified in a series of 
international covenants, many of which Vietnam had signed. 
He highlighted that concern in the U.S. from the 
Administration, Congress, NGOs, and others over Vietnam's 
human rights problems affected decisions on how fast to seek 
improvement in bilateral ties.  He admitted progress in 
personal freedoms and self-control over individual lives in 
Vietnam as long-term trends but pointed to ongoing problems 
over human rights.  He urged in particular that officials in 
the Central Highlands differentiate clearly between 
Protestants and Fulro/Dega supporters.  He urged that the 
April demonstrations not lead to a set-back in the GVN's 
efforts to improve conditions in the Central Highlands. 
 
Who's a Terrorist? 
------------------ 
 
8.  (SBU)  Ambassador reiterated that the USG does not 
"allow" Kok Ksor to engage in violent activities, and urged 
that the GVN share with the USG any clear and solid evidence 
or proof of complicity by US citizens or residents in 
violent activities in Vietnam.  He noted the need for clear, 
factual proof that could be used in a legal framework, not 
vague accusation, and promised that the USG would act if it 
received such proof.  He urged a clear distinction between 
peaceful separatist activities and actual terrorist actions, 
and noted the twelve international conventions related to 
terrorism gave good definitions. 
 
9.  (SBU)  Ambassador also emphasized that the USG does not 
encourage illegal migration to Cambodia, and that the USG on 
the contrary would like to support programs in the Central 
Highlands to encourage people to stay, but the GVN had not 
yet given permission.   However, if they do seek refuge in 
Cambodia, the RCG should be able to fulfill its obligations 
under the Refugee Convention and allow UNHCR to determine 
their status. 
 
10.  (SBU)  DPM insisted that the actions of Kok Ksor and 
the April protesters were terrorist in nature -- throwing 
rocks, using knives and sticks to attack and injure 
officials, even killing people.  He noted that Vietnamese 
law prohibited all such violent action by non-peaceful 
separatist organizations or reactionary organizations 
against public order.  Ambassador again called for a clearer 
differentiation of what is and is not terrorism.  He 
commented that, even if there was outside encouragement, 
without discontent on the ground already it could not have 
succeeded. 
 
11.  (SBU)  Ambassador cited an "unfortunate" recent article 
in Quan Doi Nhan Dan (Army Daily) implying that the USG was 
behind the events in the Central Highlands as a "step 
backwards" and as simply not true.  DPM claimed that 
reporters draw their own conclusions and write what they 
want.  He emphasized that the GVN had not accused the USG of 
being behind the demonstrations -- but many Vietnamese 
believe so since the USG had not reacted against the 
Montagnard Foundation and FULRO in the U.S.  When Ambassador 
charged that QDND clearly reflected official GVN views, DPM 
Dung only commented "not exactly."  Ambassador reminded the 
DPM that two individuals were already in U.S. prisons in 
California for attempts acts of violence against GVN 
officials. 
 
12.  (SBU)  The DPM acknowledged that the USG does not 
support separatism or terrorism, and promised that the GVN 
would "continue" to provide evidence of such acts.  However, 
in the interest of seeking a better relationship, the USG 
should not be "tolerant" of such activities, he stressed. 
 
Iraq 
---- 
 
13.  (SBU)  DPM Dung noted that all countries have human 
rights problems, and cited the "illegal invasion" by the 
U.S. of Iraq in a "war of aggression," as well as the 
treatment of Iraqi prisoners by US troops, as examples.  He 
called upon the U.S. to "look at yourself first when you 
talk about human rights."   Ambassador acknowledged 
violations by US soldiers but stressed that this problem was 
revealed by our free press, discussed in Congress, and 
subject to open and free debate.  He cited this as an 
example of how human rights problems should be dealt with. 
The USG would solve this problem and punish violators. 
 
14.  (SBU) The DPM raised whether the "invasion of Iraq" was 
itself not "terrorism," or when the U.S. sent troops to 
Vietnam to fight against "Communist terrorism."  He stressed 
that the UN had "never allowed" the U.S. to "invade Iraq" 
and repeated that this "act of aggression" was a "violation 
of the UN Charter."  Ambassador reminded him of Iraq under 
Saddam Hussein having violating UN Security Council 
resolutions for more than a decade, but welcomed a dialogue 
with the GVN on Iraq, a subject that most GVN officials had 
avoided up until now. 
 
Toward a better future 
---------------------- 
 
15.  (SBU)  In conclusion, DPM Dung urged both sides to push 
the relationship toward even closer ties and cooperation in 
an "open" manner despite differences of views on human 
rights, religious freedom, the Central Highlands, and 
democracy.  He called for better mutual understanding and 
greater sharing of views.  Ambassador welcomed DPM Dung's 
frankness.  DPM noted that both sides share a goal of better 
relations, and expressed a hope that we will move forward 
toward this goal. 
BURGHARDT