US embassy cable - 04HOCHIMINHCITY673

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 03 HO CHI MINH CITY 000673 
 
SIPDIS 
 
SENSITIVE 
 
DEPARTMENT FOR EAP/BCLTV, DRL/IRF 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: PHUM, SOCI, PREL, PGOV, KIRF, VM, HUMANR, RELFREE 
SUBJECT: RELIGIOUS FREEDOM MAKES SLOW PROGRESS IN HUE 
 
REF:  A) Hanoi 916 B) HCMC 76 
 
Summary 
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1. (SBU) Both religious leaders and government officials in 
Thua Thien-Hue Province expressed a generally positive 
outlook on religious freedom during recent official 
meetings.  However, Embassy and Consulate General officers 
were prevented from making unannounced visits to dissident 
Buddhist and Catholic clerics by apparent police measures 
(ref A).  In discussions with both Catholic and Protestant 
leaders, Missionoffs noted a willingness to compromise with 
provincial officials in order to achieve specific goals. 
This seems to have yielded some positive results, although 
obstacles remain.  End Summary. 
 
Official View - No One Should Abuse Religious Freedom 
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2. (SBU) Meeting with Hanoi poloff and HCMC conoff during 
their March 29-31 trip to Hue, Mr. Le Ba Hoang, Deputy 
Director of the provincial Committee on Religious Affairs 
(CRA) underscored freedom of religion guarantees under 
Article 17 of the Vietnamese Constitution.  But, he 
cautioned, no one has the right to abuse freedom of 
religion.  Mr. Hoang gave an overview of the scope and 
variety of believers in the province.  The largest group is 
the Buddhists, whose 550,000 believers comprise about half 
the population of the province.  A total of 1400 religious 
staff, including 764 monks and 162 nuns, administered some 
454 pagodas, although Hoang said his definition of pagoda 
included some very simple places of worship.  The Senior 
Buddhist Seminary in Hue -- opened in 1997 -- graduates 200 
students per class with the equivalent of a Bachelor of Arts 
in Buddhism, some of whom later go on to higher study 
overseas.  Moreover, the last ten years have seen four 
"designation" ceremonies, in which more than 400 members 
were selected to be trained for leadership roles within the 
Buddhist hierarchy. 
 
3.  (SBU) Responding to inquiries about Hue's most prominent 
activist monk -- Thich Thien Hanh, of the outlawed United 
Buddhist Church of Vietnam -- Hoang's stance was 
unequivocal.  Thich Thien Hanh had been a member of the 
provincial management board of Vietnam from 1981 until 1992, 
Hoang said, and his 1992 resignation was an "internal 
Buddhist matter."  Since then, Thich Thien Hanh had been a 
"subversive presence."  Hoang called the UBCV a "splinter 
group, intending to spread propaganda against the 
government."  When asked if missionoffs might meet with 
Thich Thien Hanh, Mr. Hoang stated that we did not request 
to see him, and so it had not been arranged, but that in any 
case, "seeing him would do no good for Buddhism."  When 
asked to clarify this, Mr. Hoang replied with a Vietnamese 
proverb: "A monk without a robe is not a monk; a person with 
a robe might not be a monk." (Note:  Officers had attempted 
to meet with Thich Thien Hanh the day before, but were 
blocked by police action.  Generally speaking, Mission 
informs provincial authorities of meetings with GVN 
officials, but not of plans to meet with private individuals 
including religious leaders.  End Note.) 
 
4.  (U) The Catholic Church is comparatively small, with 
four dioceses ministering to 52,000 believers, according to 
Hoang.  There are 99 priests and 531 monks and nuns serving 
104 churches within the region.  Both Mr. Hoang and Hue 
Archbishop Nguyen Nhu The noted the Catholic Seminary in Hue 
-- reopened in 1994 -- trains priests to serve in 3 
provinces:  Thua Thien-Hue, Da Nang, and Kon Tum.  Hoang 
claimed that seminary staff alone decided who was to be 
admitted for study, but Archbishop The stated there was an 
unofficial government "quota" of 10 students for each area, 
leading to class sizes of 30 every other year.  Hoang 
claimed that the number of seminary students meets -- and 
would soon exceed -- the requirements for priests for the 
three provinces.  Archbishop The agreed that the need for 
parish priests would soon be met, but mused that his 
government counterpart did not understand that priests do 
not just perform rites and rituals, but are also vital to 
charitable and humanitarian activities.  He said the 
Catholic Church still hoped to increase the number of 
seminarians in order to expand Church operations in these 
other areas. 
 
5.  (SBU) Following up on a U.S. Commission on International 
Religious Freedom (USCIRF) delegation's attempted visit to 
activist priest Father Phan Van Loi in January (ref B), 
Missionoffs asked Hoang about meeting with Loi.  The request 
was met with mock confusion.  Hoang claimed never to have 
heard of any priest by that name.  When it was established 
that we did have the right to visit and speak with any 
private citizen, however, Mr. Hoang said that the CRA does 
not recognize Father Loi as a priest, but that nevertheless 
he would try to arrange an official visit if and when we 
returned to the region.  Archbishop The commented later 
that, as Loi had been ordained in Bac Ninh province, Father 
Loi was "not affiliated with the diocese."  The status of 
Father Nguyen Van Ly raised more serious concerns.  Mr. 
Hoang said he wondered, "who controlled him," as Ly was a 
"threat to National Security" for his outspoken comments. 
Hoang claimed that Ly's imprisonment had nothing to do with 
his religious actions, but was a result of Ly's having used 
the pulpit "to lie about the government," and that he "tried 
to turn his parishioners against the government."  He 
further claimed that the Catholic Church in Vietnam did not 
support Father Ly. 
 
Catholic and Protestant leaders cautiously optimistic 
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6. (SBU) Archbishop The gave a guardedly optimistic report 
about the Catholic Church's relationship with provincial 
authorities.  Ten years ago, he said, the situation was very 
difficult.  Now, "the practice of religious belief and 
religious study" are relatively unhindered.  In general, 
Archbishop The said, they have a "cordial relationship" with 
the authorities, who are "becoming more cooperative." 
Problems remain, however, and he noted that "religious 
associations" -- for example women's and youth groups -- are 
still very restricted, and cannot meet and operate freely. 
He felt that bureaucracy and government red tape are the 
main obstacles to continuing improvement.  For example, a 
charitable clinic at Kim Long staffed by Catholic nuns has 
had problems in receiving drugs before their expiration 
date.  As they are generally donated just prior to this 
date, the delays in processing them through customs in 
Vietnam have led to whole shipments becoming unusable. 
Sister Nguyen Thi Dien, the director of the clinic, said she 
felt sure that there was no discrimination present in these 
delays, but that it was merely bureaucratic in nature. 
Archbishop The also noted that it took four years of 
consistent effort to receive approval to build a Catholic 
"Service Center" -- a conference and study center -- which 
was due to open very soon.  The inaugural event for the 
center would be a conference for the Episcopal Council of 
Catholics April 26-28. 
 
7. (SBU) Archbishop The did describe a number of outstanding 
disputes with the State over Church property.  In Thien An, 
107 hectares of Church land has apparently been seized, and 
is slated to be developed into an "amusement center," most 
likely a water park.  Hoang of the CRA stated that, since 
the land was bought by the Church under the Diem regime, it 
is "subject to redistribution."  Archbishop The said 
although this project is "environmentally questionable," the 
chances that the Church will get that land back are very 
slim.  Archbishop The also talked about a church in Ke Sung, 
where a road is being built across parish land, very close 
to the front of the church building.  Hoang said that the 
road was a necessary project given the province's overall 
plan for infrastructure development, but added that because 
the church at Ke Sung would be affected by this project, it 
would receive "preferential compensation".  He noted that 
the church was not opposed to the road itself, but its 
concern revolved around safety issues, and the potential 
damage to the "spiritual environment."  Speaking more 
broadly, Hoang likened the situation to the time period 
immediately following the American Revolution, saying that 
"in order to bring about equality in society" it was 
necessary to implement limited "land reform." 
 
8. (SBU) Pastor Ma Phuc Hiep, of the government recognized 
Protestant Church in Hue, was largely positive in his 
comments.  He noted the Protestant Church is small in Hue, 
with only 380 believers, and said that strong Buddhist 
traditions in the region made it difficult to attract new 
converts.  He said that the CRA had been very fair, 
especially given the c's small numbers, and that Protestants 
have been able to pursue community outreach programs and 
some charitable work, although they would like to expand 
their charitable activities.  The Church has facilitated 
three recent visits by doctors and chemists from overseas in 
order to hold medical clinics and perform operations.  Their 
ability to do these kinds of charitable works, despite such 
a modest congregation, was due in part to donations from 
Vietnamese Americans.  Hiep noted that there were 
unrecognized Pentecostal congregations in Hue, but said he 
was not aware of any difficulties encountered by these house 
churches.  When asked why he felt that Protestants were 
receiving such favorable treatment in comparison with some 
other religious groups, Pastor Hiep offered that 
"Protestants have not done anything to break the legal 
strictures," and therefore find themselves free to practice. 
Taking poloff and conoff on a private tour of his church, 
Hiep said that there had been "many problems with the 
Communists" in the past, but agreed that the situation had 
improved. (Note:  It appears that Hiep felt more comfortable 
speaking to officers when the Embassy translator and other 
church members were not present.  End Note) 
 
Comment 
------------ 
 
9. (SBU) While the Catholics and Protestants appeared 
frustrated with the attitudes of local authorities, it 
appeared that both were taking an approach of patient 
cooperation in order to ensure their ability to operate.  In 
the end, it seems many church leaders have come to the 
conclusion that while progress was slow -- at times glacial 
-- it was nonetheless progress, and they have chosen to 
focus on commonalities and cooperation in the belief that 
this would best serve their believers in the province. 
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